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Schenn to AHL on conditioning loan? Hmm.

Disclaimer: half-baked thoughts to follow. I'm really not sure what I think about this, nor do I know if any other team's have sent junior-eligible players to the AHL on conditioning loans. Maybe you'll tell me this happens all the time. First I've heard of it.

  • CBA Article 13.8 allows a team to send a player on the active roster to the AHL for "conditioning purposes" for up to two weeks. This is, per Rich Hammond, what the Kings have just invoked re Brayden Schenn's assignment to Manchester of the AHL.
  • The NHL and the CHL have an agreement (the so-called 1995 agreement) which is not available to the public. We don't know exactly what's in the agreement, but the gist of it is supposed to be (as it's frequently paraphrased), "players with junior eligibility not playing in the NHL must be returned to the CHL."
  • The NHL/CHL agreement, whatever it really says, is grandfathered in by the NHL 2005 CBA.
  • 13.8 specifically describes the NHL commissioner's authority to investigate the circumstances of a player's conditioning loan, to determine whether the loan is an attempt to evade "any provision" of the CBA.
  • "9.1(iv): The return dates to Major Juniors (as established by Agreement between the NHL and the Canadian Hockey League, dated May 2, 1995 [...] are hereby confirmed and affirmed [...] (e.g., return dates, prohibition on sending underage players to minors)." Not really grammatical (shocking, I know), but it's arguable that the CBA considers violating the CHL agreement a circumvention.
  • The big hiccup is that we don't know what's in the CHL agreement. But if the often-repeated paraphrase is accurate, it's pretty clear that a conditioning loan to the AHL is not what the CHL would mean by "playing in the NHL."
  • Does the NHL care really, if the CHL gets upset? I have no idea. But:
  • The nine-game limit is not, as far as I know, a part of the NHL/CHL agreement. The nine-game limit is found in CBA Article 9(d)(i). Players can be returned to junior at any time, even after the nine game limit is reached; but (per 9(d)(i)) at game 10 the player's contract kicks in. When and how a player gets paid is kinda sorta (entirely) a CBA issue. 
  • I think that logic still folds back in on (or refers back to) the CHL agreement.
  • I have to assume the Kings asked the league and/or the union in advance if this move would be okay. Otherwise, it seems a little dicey; mitigated perhaps by the fact that the transgression may be only of the secret CHL agreement, which we can't see. But still...

[UPDATE: turns out, according to Rich Hammond, Schenn has not yet been assigned because the Kings are in conversation with the league about the particulars, i.e. "how can we do this so it's allowed by the CBA?" Like I said...]

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Schenn to Manchester...

I wondered how long it would take for you to weigh in on this move…
—ROTFLMAO!!!!!

(I’m still on the floor, by the way. Makes the typing difficult…)
In a year where every rule on Circumvention seemed bypassed/ignored/twisted until no longer recognizable, I imagine this is just another one of those rules.

My question will be, sitting up now seriously, how many of these ‘Junior Eligible’ players who played in the AHL actually returned to the AHL?

by BakoCA on Nov 16, 2010 3:41 PM PST reply actions  

erase, erase, erase...

…returned to the Junior team?

by BakoCA on Nov 16, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions  

I can’t imagine the NHL being okay with this. No way does Schenn end up in Manchester. It’s either the NHL or juniors.

by Sydor25 on Nov 16, 2010 4:10 PM PST reply actions  

Well... one thing is for sure:

If the League slaps down the Kings for trying to circumvent the CBA, I, for one, will not cry about how the League is “biased” against the Kings.

"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim

by DougX on Nov 16, 2010 4:27 PM PST reply actions  

Q/anyone else surprised at King being recalled?

Any other other Manchester wingers u think might be a better fit or does Dwight seem most logical? I’ve paid little attention to what’s been transpiring down at Manchester U…

by kiosku2 on Nov 16, 2010 4:43 PM PST via mobile reply actions  

King’s almost the exact same size as Alexei Ponikarovsky.

The West Coast is the Best Coast.

by RudyKelly on Nov 16, 2010 4:48 PM PST up reply actions  

After Last Night's Game

Lombardi/Murray are gonna make sure they always ice a trio of big, capable forwards.

by Lars H on Nov 16, 2010 5:41 PM PST up reply actions  

The Dallas announcers called it the “Large Humans” line…it must be restored.

In Dinglebarn We Trust

by Niesy on Nov 16, 2010 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Large Humans line? I love it. Amazing in it’s simplicity.

Thy time is nigh.

by Hambone* on Nov 16, 2010 9:24 PM PST up reply actions  

Dallas' Color Guy

-Daryl Reaugh - is a quality sports announcer. Possesses a deep vocabulary that he’s not afraid to use. He even managed a James Joyce reference during a broadcast.

by Lars H on Nov 17, 2010 10:15 AM PST up reply actions  

Sweet.

As if someone who says "They’re all large humans" wasn’t cool enough. Though I would like to see a line of large mastodons, someday.

In Dinglebarn We Trust

by Niesy on Nov 17, 2010 6:16 PM PST up reply actions  

On Circumvention

At least Lombardi has the sense to consult with the League before making such a sketchy move.

by Lars H on Nov 16, 2010 5:43 PM PST reply actions  

I was just about to post the same thing.

Smart move if it works out though.

Thy time is nigh.

by Hambone* on Nov 16, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m really glad about that too. The second I read it on the Insider, I was worried about this loophole business.

In Dinglebarn We Trust

by Niesy on Nov 16, 2010 6:37 PM PST up reply actions  

If it flies

An inspired gambit, more so given the developing circumstances.

Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?

by USHA#17 on Nov 16, 2010 7:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Circumvention

First off, can circumvention be legally used on a blog site? Just wondering, get it?

Secondly, even though Lombardi “asks” the league if it’s ok to send Schenn down, really, can it be even in the spirit of the rules? But if it is, the flood gates have to be opened and other teams will ask. That’s what makes it not gonna fly for the Kings, I think.

by Kingsfanone on Nov 16, 2010 9:10 PM PST reply actions  

Conditioning huh?

Wheat Kings must be going berserk over this…

"Marriage is the leading cause of divorce"

by angelofdeath on Nov 16, 2010 10:55 PM PST reply actions  

Hope it works

I really hope this works for Schenn, because really he is in a position now where he hasn’t played a game in weeks, so the Kings have to do something with him.

Does the CBA define what they mean by “conditioning”, because that could be the sticking point. If Schenn was playing regularly, then got injured and sat out a few weeks, I don’t think they’re be a problem sending him down to get him back up to speed. But I’m not sure the excuse of “we benched him for so long that we want to get him games in the AHL before we let him play again here” is going to fly.

by Hoolie on Nov 17, 2010 7:51 AM PST reply actions  

But I’m not sure the excuse of "we benched him for so long that we want to get him games in the AHL before we let him play again here" is going to fly.

I think the Kings are going to claim that his knee injury makes him unable to play at the NHL level so he needs to get up to speed in the AHL. I don’t know if that’s going to fly but that’s probably what they’ll say.

The West Coast is the Best Coast.

by RudyKelly on Nov 17, 2010 8:22 AM PST up reply actions  

Patrick Lalime was sent down for conditioning because Ryan Miller stole all his playing time last year, so i don’t think you actually need a reason. However, with the CHL involved, it might become more complicated.

Mike Weber: Rejailed into the pressbox.
Everything wrong with the Sabres is Drew Stafford's fault.

by Ubiquitous on Nov 17, 2010 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Looks like the league approved the move…Schenn is headed to the Monarch’s, per Rich. Definitely a head scratcher.

by SCSF on Nov 17, 2010 2:40 PM PST reply actions  

I…can’t believe that got approved? Wow.

In Dinglebarn We Trust

by Niesy on Nov 17, 2010 6:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m pretty surprised as well. I thought the league was going to tell them that if they want Schenn to do a conditioning assignment they can send him to juniors for a couple weeks then call him back up.

by GoKings09 on Nov 17, 2010 6:35 PM PST up reply actions  

If he’s sent to junior, he can’t come back basically. He can go to Manchester AFTER Brandon is done for the year. I believe Quisp answered this exact question on Hammond’s blog.

Hey, DL did good, for the Kings AND for Schenn.

by Kingsfanone on Nov 17, 2010 9:54 PM PST up reply actions  

The rule about junior players only involves sending them to the AHL. They are allowed to be called up to their NHL team any time, just not allowed to be sent down to the minors unless they are over 20 or have already completed 4 years of junior.

by GoKings09 on Nov 17, 2010 10:49 PM PST up reply actions  

I could be missing some sub-clause or whatnot, but I believe that any under 20’s that are sent back to juniors can only be recalled on an emergency basis. That was the case with Schenn last year in that one game in Vancouver and also Nazem Kadri with the laffs.

by SCSF on Nov 18, 2010 8:12 AM PST up reply actions  

I’m pretty sure this is correct.

The West Coast is the Best Coast.

by RudyKelly on Nov 18, 2010 10:13 AM PST up reply actions  

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