RudyKelly's 2011-12 Los Angeles Kings
RudyKelly (www.battleofcali.com) and I agreed to each dream up our own roster for LA 2011 opening night, and then exchange and comment. Neither of us consulted the other while dreaming.
[Rudy picks apart my line-up here]
Here's RudyKelly's line-up:
Alexander Frolov - Jarret Stoll - Andrei Loktionov
(Random Veteran) - Brayden Schenn - Dustin Brown
Rich Clune - Marc-Andre Cliche - Kevin Westgarth
Rob Scuderi - Drew Doughty
Jack Johnson - Viatcheslav Voynov
Davis Drewiske - Matt Greene
Jonathan Bernier
Jonathan Quick
Auto-Link doesn't like Voynov.
I'm just staring at Rudy's roster and thinking out-loud. No Williams or Handzus, who would have been UFA that summer. No Hickey or Teubert, which I assume means they're ripening in Manchester. No Moller (!). No Clifford, Richardson or Parse. Cliche and Westgarth instead. Loktionov on the wing.
Rudy, here are my questions:
- I notice you have retained Stoll and let go of Handzus. I did the same thing in my roster. But I felt bad about it, because I can also imagine a world in which Handzus re-signs for peanuts and becomes a forward version of Sean O'Donnell. What do you think about having two kids down the middle (I have Loktionov and Schenn; you have Cliche and Schenn) and having to lose one of Handzus or Stoll?
- Johnson and Voynov as a pair? Are you trying to sabotage Voynov?
- Drewiske has been re-signed in your version of reality. Does this mean you don't think Teubert, Hickey, Muzzin or Campbell will be ready a year and a half from now? There obviously isn't even room for all of them, but I have to think at least one of them (I chose two: Muzzin and Hickey) will crack the line-up by then.
- Simmonds and Moller will have been RFA the previous 7/1. Moller is not in your line-up. Does he get traded before next year's deadline then? Also, a related question: HOW COULD YOU!
- Doughty and Johnson are both on the team (yay). They both will be sporting new contracts? How much will each get?
- You have Westgarth making it, over Clifford and Nolan, both of whom will have had a year in Manchester by then (unless Clifford makes the big club in 2010). Is it a youth/experience issue? Am I overvaluing the unknown quantities over the known one in selecting Clifford and Nolan and ignoring Westgarth altogether?
- Given the way Lombardi works, I have to believe some trades will have been made in the year before this team hits the ice, since DL is going to get something for Ersberg, Moller, Richardson, Parse and maybe Williams and/or Handzus. Obviously, neither of us added any big names from other teams to our rosters, because that's beyond the pale of the exercise. But what do you think will actually happen? Trades for picks and prospects? Or a bigger trade for a bigger single piece?
- We also appear to have tacitly agreed not to trade away any of the Kings big names who would be still under contract in 2011. However, what do you think the chances are that Kopitar, Brown, Frolov Stoll and Quick -- the remaining Dave Taylor picks -- are all on the team two seasons from now?
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14 comments
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Comments
1. I notice you have retained Stoll and let go of Handzus. I did the same thing in my roster. But I felt bad about it, because I can also imagine a world in which Handzus re-signs for peanuts and becomes a forward version of Sean O’Donnell. What do you think about having two kids down the middle (I have Loktionov and Schenn; you have Cliche and Schenn) and having to lose one of Handzus or Stoll?
I felt terrible about letting Zeus go, but I don’t see the Kings rolling with $15 million invested in their top 3 centers again and I had to get rid of one of them. I’d rather trade Jarret Stoll and re-sign Zeus but that seemed like a stretch. Ultimately, I see Stoll occupying Zeus’ role and a young player, either Loktionov or Schenn, taking that 2nd center spot.
2. Johnson and Voynov as a pair? Are you trying to sabotage Voynov?
I can’t tell what to do with Johnson. He can’t play with Greene because they’re bizarro versions of one another and he can’t really play on the right side. He’s gotta play with someone though, and I see Voynov coming up next season and then moving into a top 4 role the season after that. I don’t see Johnson lasting past the 11-12 season anyway, so it doesn’t matter who he plays with too much. I really like Voynov and think he can fits perfectly into the spot currently occupied by Randy Jones. He could easily be Thomas Hickey or Colten Teubert, but Lombardi’s big on seniority so I see Voynov getting the first crack at a spot.
3. Drewiske has been re-signed in your version of reality. Does this mean you don’t think Teubert, Hickey, Muzzin or Campbell will be ready a year and a half from now? There obviously isn’t even room for all of them, but I have to think at least one of them (I chose two: Muzzin and Hickey) will crack the line-up by then.
I think Hickey will be ready. I don’t think Lombardi will agree. I don’t see the Kings breaking in more than one young defenseman a season and I picked Voynov for next year. I think Hickey will probably be ready by 11-12 but I doubt he starts the season. I don’t really know what to expect from Jake Muzzin so I went ahead and left him off. Andrew Campbell kind of sucks so I’m not worried about him. And I hate Colten Teubert so I don’t want him up. I don’t necessarily think Drewiske will be that 6th defenseman because I’m not that high on him, but I think that spot will be taken by an aging defenseman who is good at defense. The Kings will already have Doughty, Johnson and Voynov to move the puck; they’ll need someone to play on the penalty kill.
4. Simmonds and Moller will have been RFA the previous 7/1. Moller is not in your line-up. Does he get traded before next year’s deadline then? Also, a related question: HOW COULD YOU!
Yeah, I gotta be honest: I don’t really see Moller fitting into the team long-term. He’s just… really, really tiny. The Kings already have more than a few little prospects (Loktionov, Brandon Kozun, Justin Azevedo) and only one of them will most likely work out. I like Moller and I think he’d make a great roller hockey player but I don’t really see him lasting. I think we’ll use him to get a rental player or a player with a one-year deal in the summer.
5. Doughty and Johnson are both on the team (yay). They both will be sporting new contracts? How much will each get?
Doughty will be sporting a spanking new contract worth about what Kopitar is getting. Johnson will hold out the first few weeks of training camp, sign a one-year deal, and then move on the next off-season. We’ll all hate him.
6. You have Westgarth making it, over Clifford and Nolan, both of whom will have had a year in Manchester by then (unless Clifford makes the big club in 2010). Is it a youth/experience issue? Am I overvaluing the unknown quantities over the known one in selecting Clifford and Nolan and ignoring Westgarth altogether?
I don’t want Westgarth there, but Terry Murray loves his goons and I think Westgarth will come up starting next year. I didn’t look at it as Clifford vs. Westgarth, I saw it as Clifford vs. Clune. I’m hoping Clune can stick at least for 2 years and then when he moves on (or we all get tired of his stupid antics) Clifford can come up. I don’t really see Jordan Nolan being an NHL player. Just my opinion.
7. Given the way Lombardi works, I have to believe some trades will have been made in the year before this team hits the ice, since DL is going to get something for Ersberg, Moller, Richardson, Parse and maybe Williams and/or Handzus. Obviously, neither of us added any big names from other teams to our rosters, because that’s beyond the pale of the exercise. But what do you think will actually happen? Trades for picks and prospects? Or a bigger trade for a bigger single piece?
I see the Kings losing quite a bit of money in the next few seasons; now, most of that will be taken up by new contracts for our young players, but some of that can be used to sign someone. I see the Kings adding one defenseman and one forward. The Kings could potentially sign Patrick Marleau or Ilya Kovalchuk but I thought that’d sound too hopeful.
The toughest person to leave off was Brad Richardson because I really like him, but I look at him as one of those guys that you are forced to dispel to keep up your winning ways. He’ll be like Kyle Quincey and we’ll all miss him.
8. We also appear to have tacitly agreed not to trade away any of the Kings big names who would be still under contract in 2011. However, what do you think the chances are that Kopitar, Brown, Frolov Stoll and Quick — the remaining Dave Taylor picks — are all on the team two seasons from now?
Stoll could be traded but I think it’s unlikely. There’s something comforting about having him in the line-up, the idea that you can put him out there 17-18 minutes a night without worrying about anything bad happening, and I think Lombardi likes it too. Frolov is… kind of unlikely to stay, I think. I just can’t imagine life without him. I think Quick and Bernier will both be fighting it out for the #1 goaltender job in 11-12, but I think by 12-13 one of them will be gone. Kopitar, Brown and Doughty are all golden.
Ultimately, these are both completely wrong and we’re going to look retarded in 2 years. I mean, 2 years ago we couldn’t have predicted that Wayne Simmonds would be this good or that Ted Purcell would be this bad. Whatever, should be fun to watch.
The West Coast is the Best Coast.
To address your last point first
I called Simmonds and Moller (though I thought it would be this year, not last year, that they made it), actually argued that Quincey was better than Bouwmeester before Quincey skated for the Kings (it’s in the archives somewhere), and took a beating for saying Handzus will be worth his money when he’s not hurt. However, my projection of this season from two/three years ago does feature Purcell, Moulson, Lewis and O’Sullivan. What is blogging for, if not to humiliate one’s self for the time-capsule?
Wait till this year.
by Quisp on Mar 15, 2010 5:24 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
What is blogging for, if not to humiliate one’s self for the time-capsule?
Awesome
2009-10 Kings Hockey: Delivering Milk Steaks from the Meat Train at an arena near you!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Mar 16, 2010 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Johnson/Voynov
The problem is they both have defensive issues, and in that relationship, Jack would be the teacher.
Wait till this year.
Andrew Campbell
is supposed to have made some kind of break-through, but I haven’t seen him since I heard that, so who knows. Campbell, Muzzin and Teubert are all competing for the big ***hole job.
Wait till this year.
Muzzin interests me
Because he seems to have some credentials for someone who was not already locked up by an organization. Makes you wonder: Am I right and everyone else is wrong, or am I not seeing something that everyone else sees? But I guess the price was right, so you might as well take a chance.
Teubert, from the reports that filter in, seems like a live grenade. I hope he works out, but live grenades ought to land somewhere other than where you’re standing.
Yeah, Muzzin had a really bad back injury when he was 16 and his image never really recovered from it. But he had a fantastic year in the OHL this season (over a point a game as a defenseman) so I don’t know what to expect from him. I’ve never seen him play. He could be another Joe Piskula or he could be a legit defenseman that we got for nothing. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him hop Teubert on the prospect pipeline.
Also, Qusip, you know who neither one of us likes at all? Alec Martinez.
The West Coast is the Best Coast.
Poor Alec
It would suck to be literally one of the top 500-750 defensemen on the planet only to be rendered completely uninteresting. He’s sort of like all those super-hot beauty pageant winners from all over the world who get off the bus in Hollywood only to find hundreds of thousands of the exact same model.
Re Muzzin: the fact of his recovery from the injury is part of his appeal. It’s both why we were able to get him and why his character is so appealing to DL.
Wait till this year.
Moller
He’s 5’10"
Of Moller, Loktionov, Azevedo and Kozun (and you forgot Roe and Czarnik), Moller is several steps ahead of most of them. I don’t know what will happen to Kozun and Azevedo, probably nothing; but Moller and Loktionov are going to play in the NHL for awhile, in my ungrounded opinion.
Moller is small in height and weight because he’s a child still. The Moller that’s going to be a top-six forward is 5’10" (maybe 5’11") 195lbs, and he will be able to dish out hits (which he already does, but it’s more pesky at this stage) and will not scare me as much when someone tries to kill him. Moller is actually one of the best on the team at taking checks and not getting taken out of the play (to say nothing of not getting hurt), and he goes to the blue-paint and into the corners more than most of the Kings forwards. His hockey sense, as Murray just pointed out, is possibly the best on the entire team. And he’s a leader (Sweden, etc.). The only thing wrong with this kid is that he’s a kid. Some people get mannish bodies at 18, Moller isn’t one of them. I don’t actually know if Oscar will be thick enough to break into the top-six for good by 2011, but I would be shocked if he isn’t there by the time he’s 22-23.
Roller hockey!
I think Moller will wear an “A” for somebody in the league. I hope it’s the Kings.
Wait till this year.
I like Moller, too
And I like him even better now that he’s growing a beard. It makes him look like a young Viking. Scandinavian hockey players should look like they’d be comfortable with a longboat and a battleaxe, like they could rip through an Irish monastery in nothing flat.
Let’s hope both the beard and the physique round out.
I like Moller three...
… but I think Rudy is right. I hope Moller stays and ends up helping the Kings hoist the Cup, but I believe he’ll be the odd man out. Whatever happens I’ll always see him wearing a cape on the ice, so thanks for that hilarious image Rudy.
Anyone can find themselves the odd man out, given the right (wrong) circumstances
and I believe if that happens to Oscar he will simply go somewhere else and make the Kings regret letting him go. Moller not only has the skill to do that, but the character. I frankly think a lot of people see incidents like the Ryan “hit” — which will be a suspension next season — and conclude that Moller is not up to the punishment. But I see exactly the opposite. In that situation, having not been paralyzed from the neck down, he hopped right up and started wailing on Ryan. In about 80% of the hits Moller takes, he shows textbook ability in taking the check and staying in the play. The other thing about Moller that stands out to me is his ability and willingness to dish it out. His kid body is not doing him any favors right now, but that hasn’t stopped him from running Pronger, for instance; and at the junior level he was quite punishing. I said this about Doughty last year — that when his body grew up you would see the nasty Doughty come out — and we’ve started to see that this season, more hits, and not small ones either. Moller showed a similar streak in juniors, and as he grows into his body he will do more damage, because, as with everything else, he is technically right on top of it. Ivanans is nine feet 500 lbs but hits about half as hard as Moller does now.
I have to believe Lombardi will hang on to Moller until he grows up. He has to know that his only flaw is that he’s not an adult yet.
Every time we get into a discussion of Moller’s size, I start to put together a list of other like-sized players. This time I’m really going to do it.
Wait till this year.
How many "A"s are the Kings giving out?
Quisp, long time troller, first time poster. Love the site and the old site too.
I think RudyKelly said Simmonds would be an “A” too… With Brown, Kopitar, Doughty and Greene still here, who is giving up their letter.
I think Greene gives his up for Doughty as early as ‘10-’11, thus rendering my personalized jersey obsolete.
by Clever Kings Handle on Mar 16, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Good question.
Here are the prospects/youngsters who have what it takes to wear the C or an A (in my opinion, which means nothing):
Moller (captain of Team Sweden)
Hickey (captain of Team Canada)
Simmonds
Schenn (Wheat Kings captain)
Doughty
(Teubert is also a captain but I will leave him off the list due to his biserker status.)
But really none of these guys needs to wear an A or C any time soon. Whoever is still here in 5 years (and wouldn’t it be nice if they all were), then we can talk about them. It would be overly optimistic to expect all three of our current captain/alts to still be here in 2015.
Who the captain is after Brown, whenever that is, depends entirely on who rises to the challenge of being a leader. It will probably be pretty obvious when the time comes.
But I would not bet against Moller, Hickey, Doughty, Simmonds or Schenn being Cs or As somewhere in the NHL 5-7 years from now.
Wait till this year.

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