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What to expect from Kings' 19th or 20th overall pick

Kings were ninth overall in the league standings, which would appear to put them in the 22nd spot in the first round. However, because of the slightly wacky way the division winners and everyone who gets past the second round of the playoffs are moved down in draft order, the Kings have already moved up to 20, and could end up at 19. (Buffalo won their division, so they will pick after the Kings despite having a worse record, and one of Philly or Boston will make it to the third round, and so will move down also. So that puts us at 20. And if Montreal wins, the Kings move up to 19.

So, what then should I be looking forward to? As a Kings fan, my impression of the value of late 1st round picks is pretty bleak thanks to Scott Barney, Matt Zultek, Jeff Tambellini and Brian Boyle. And someone named Jens. Jens Karlsbad I think.

Other teams have fared a little better. After the jump I will chart every 15th-30th pick in the last twenty years. But first, here's a short list of some prospects teams (mostly not the Kings) picked up in the second half of the first round:

Alexei Kovalev, Markus Naslund, Glen Murray, Martin Rucinsky, Dean McAmmond, Ray Whitney, Ziggy Palffy, Sandis Ozolinsh, Jason Smith, Martin Straka, Boris Mironov, Jason Allison, Saku Koivu, Shean Donovan, Petr Sykora, Brian Boucher, Georges Laraque, Denis Gauthier, Dainius Zubrus, Marco Sturm, Danny Briere, Brenden Morrow, Scott Hannan, Simon Gagne, Scott Gomez, Jiri Fischer, Jonathan Cheechoo, Martin Skoula, Robyn Rigehr, Mike Van Ryn, Martin Havlat, Barret Jackman, Nick Boynton, Alexander Frolov, Brooks Orpik, Anton Volchenkov, Brad Boyes, Justin Williams, Niklas Kronwall, R.J. Umberger, Tim Gleason, Lukas Krajicek, Colby Armstrong, Denis Grebeshkov, Alexander Steen, Zach Parise, Ryan Kesler, Mike Richards, Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, Steve Bernier, Mike Green, Andrej Meszaros, Travis Zajac, Wojtek Wolski, Cory Schneider, Tuukka Rask, T.J. Oshie, Andrew Cogliano, Martin Hanzal, Claude Giroux, Patrik Berglund, Semyon Varlamov, David Perron, Angelo Esposito, Jordan Eberle, Tyler Ennis, Luca Sbisa.

And roughly seventy-two guys in the first ten years who played fewer than 160 games, about 20 of whom never played a single game.

So, here's the historical record, the 15th-30th picks, along with the top five picks that year (for perspective) going back to 1991:

Star-divide

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1991 1-5 picks: Lindros, Falloon, Scott Niedermeyer, Lachance, Ward. I count about eight guys in the bottom half of the round who turned out better than Falloon, Lachance and Ward.

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1992 1-5 picks: Roman Hamrlik, Yashin, Rathje, Warriner, Kasparaitis. Straka trumps Warriner, at least. The 7, 8, 11 and 13 picks played fewer than 100 games.

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1993 1-5 picks: Alexander Daigle, Chris Pronger, Chris Gratton, Paul Kariya, Rob Niedermayer. Koivu, Bertuzzi and (arguably) Allison are not out of place with at least two of those names.

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1994 1-5 picks: Ed Jovanovski, Oleg Tverdovsky, Radek Bonk, Jason Bonsignore, Jeff O'Neill.

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1995 1-5: Bryan Berard, Wade Redden, Aki Berg, Chad Kilger, Daymond Langkow. I would have preferred Sykora to a couple of those guys. Sorry, Aki.

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1996 1-5: Chris Phillips, Andrei Zyuzin, J.P. Dumont, Alexandre Volchkov, Richard Jackman. Not especially distinguishable from Briere, Sturm, Zubrus, Sarich and pick a name.

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1997 1-5: Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau, Olli Jokinen, Roberto Luongo, Eric Brewer. Okay, that's a pretty good top five.

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1998 1-5: Vincent Lecavalier, David Legwand, Brad Stuart, Bryan Allen, Vitaly Vishnevsky. Obviously, Gagne and Gomez belong in that group.

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1999 1-5: Patrik Stefan, Henrik Sedin, Daniel Sedin, Pavel Brendl, Tim Connolly. After the Sedins, the next best player is Havlat, at 26.

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2000 1-5: Rick DiPietro, Dany Heatley, Marian Gaborik, Rostislav Klesla, Raffi Torres. Heatley and Gaborik are a step ahead of everyone else, but Williams, Kronwall, Ott, Boyes, Volchenkov, Frolov and Orpik are not out of place with the rest of them.

Picture_23_medium

2001 1-5: Ilya Kovalchuk, Jason Spezza, Alexandr Svitov, Stephen Weiss, Stanislav Chistov. The first two guys don't suck, but the rest of the round is kind of undewhelming. I love Tim Gleason, though.

Picture_25_medium

2002 1-5: Rick Nash, Kari Lehtonen, Jay Bouwmeester, Joni Pitkanen, Ryan Whitney.

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2003 1-5: Marc-Andre Fleury, Eric Staal, Nathan Horton, Nikolai Zherdev, Thomas Vanek. Pretty good. But I'd trade them for Parise, Getzlaf, Richards, Kesler and Perry.

Picture_29_medium

2004 1-5: Alexander Ovechkin, Evgeni Malkin, Cam Barker, Andrew Ladd, Blake Wheeler. But, hey, Mike Green, also not bad (at 29).

Picture_30_medium

2005 1-5: Sidney Crosby, Bobby Ryan, Jack Johnson, Benoit Pouliot, Carey Price. That's a great top five. But there are seven guys from 6-14 who haven't stuck in the NHL yet. And the bottom half of the round has Rask, Bergfors, Oshie, Cogliano and Hanzal.

Picture_31_medium

2006 1-5: Erik Johnson, Jordan Staal, Jonathan Toews, Niklas Backstrom, Phil Kessel.

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2007 1-5: Patrick Kane, James van Riemsdyk, Kyle Turris, Thomas Hickey, Karl Alzner. Well, it's early yet, but so far David Perron has worked out better than Thomas Hickey.

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2008 1-5: Steven Stamkos, Drew Doughty, Zach Bogosian, Alex Pietrangelo, Luke Schenn.

Picture_35_medium

2009 1-5: John Tavares, Victor Hedman, Matt Duchene, Evander Kane, Brayden Schenn.

Obviously, a lot of great players have been picked in the second half of the first round. However, the Kings' record here is not so hot: Trevor Lewis, Jeff Tambellini, Brian Boyle, Denis Grebeshkov, Jens Karlsson (!), David Steckel, Alexander Frolov, Matthew Biron, Scott Barney, Matt Zultek, Josh Green. Only one of those (Lewis) is a Lombardi pick. Frolov is obviously a great pick, Grebeshkov is a good one. Lewis may work out. Steckel has made a decent career for himself. The rest, BLEGH.


And, so, with all that in mind, here is the current ISS top 30, as posted on Hockey's Future.

Picture_4_medium

Picture_7_medium

Yes, Nick Bjugstad is related to Scott Bjugstad. I believe he's his nephew. Jarred Tinordi is Mark Tinordi's son. I'll do my pathetic version of in-depth on some of these kids as we get closer to the draft. But those two, plus Emerson Etem and Jonathan Merrill (who is unlikely to still be around by the time we pick) are the ones that have jumped out at me, to the degree that anything can jump out at you from a two inch box on your computer screen. Just as most of us who watch every Kings game know so much more about the details of our players than do folks who see them once or twice a year, there's absolutely no way for me to have any real insight on the ISS top 30 that isn't just badly parroting some informed person's real insight. So all I'm left with is what I learned, or confirmed, by learning at past drafts: there have been, on average, somewhere around two to four players taken in the bottom half of the first round who will turn out better than some (and in some cases, most) of the 1-10 picks of their draft year. This is encouraging news if you believe your GM has the ability to sniff them out.

Also, there was a much more profound and moving version of the above paragraph, but the SBN editor ate it.

[UPDATE: incidentally, Lombardi has had six picks in the 15-30 range over those twenty years. They were Marco Sturm, Scott Hannan, Marcel Goc, Jonathan Cheechoo and Mike Morris. Morris's career was derailed by PCD (post concussive disorder) before he had a chance to play a game in the NHL. But the other four are solid picks. Oh, and Trevor Lewis...well the jury's still out, but I like him. Maybe he'll be next year's Parse.]

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2 things

1) Are all of the guys listed at Center really centers or is it just kinda forwards that play center now but don’t project to be real centers in NHL and would end up at wing?

2) I think if Kuznetsov is there we should take him. Granted that he is willing to come over to NA just as Lombardi talked to Voynov and Loktionov before taking them to make sure they wanted to play in NA and NHL and were willing to play juniors or minors to adapt to style of play, lifestyle, etc

by GoKings09 on May 5, 2010 1:41 AM PDT reply actions  

I imagine

it’s whatever the scouts determine they are playing now.

Wait till this year.

by Quisp on May 5, 2010 7:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

It’s like how 80% of the guys in the baseball draft play short stop: the best guys play the hardest position. Most guys will move to wing.

The West Coast is the Best Coast.

by RudyKelly on May 5, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

We should go for Emerson Etem, because that’s a sweet name.

by Nut on May 5, 2010 7:36 AM PDT reply actions  

And, so, with all that in mind...

(line of the article)

and? so? with all that in mind, what are your top choices?

by wavesinair on May 5, 2010 7:49 AM PDT reply actions  

Pick the D-man

Would be interesting to hear your take on Jarred Tinordi, wonder what his relationship is to Mark Tinordi, Dman from Dallas I think.

by Player-X on May 5, 2010 8:37 AM PDT reply actions  

Oops

Somehow the last paragraph of my post disappeared. Fixing…

Wait till this year.

by Quisp on May 5, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Chelyabinsk

This years no 19 Evgeny Kuznetsov is from the same Russian city as Voynov (and my wife incidentally). I wonder if they played together for Traktor. Not that we need another center, but thats around our turn to pick.

by Tyfighter77 on May 5, 2010 11:32 AM PDT reply actions  

Just as most of us who watch every Kings game know so much more about the details of our players than do folks who see them once or twice a year, there’s absolutely no way for me to have any real insight on the ISS top 30 that isn’t just badly parroting some informed person’s real insight.

This is very, very true. Ignore everything outside of Bob McKenzie’s prospect rundown, and even then, don’t worry if the Kings take someone higher than expected. If you’re going to read scouting reports, I’d focus on just the negatives; they’re much more likely to give you a perspective on how the player plays than the positives.

The West Coast is the Best Coast.

by RudyKelly on May 5, 2010 11:50 AM PDT reply actions  

Whoever we pick, it better be a winger

We’re very weak on the wings… Austin Watson ahem ahem

Everyone needs to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer.

by angelofdeath on May 5, 2010 7:36 PM PDT reply actions  

Deano & Co.

This will be the most interesting draft year for Lombardi during his LA tenure. DL will, for the first time here, not be picking in the top 5 with his own scouting crew. (Remember, for his first draft pick with the Kings — Bernier — he went with what the recently-fired Dave Taylor’s scouts recommended (although that’s probably who he would’ve picked anyway.)) Last year, throughout the draft, he went heavily with “grit” & “character”, unpredictably. This year? Nobody knows! My strongest curiosity is whether he’ll come out of left field (a la Hickey), pull a no-brainer, if available (Doughty), or… dare I imagine the “T” word? And keep in mind that, as usual, Lombardi’s picks tend to be substantial throughout the draft, and not just limited to the first round. These are the two days of the year when we best get a glimpse into the mind of our GM, which hatches like hen’s egg, and we await the fascinating creature that gradually emerges, grows, and squawks its squawk to world.

i'll show you my butt tattoo if you'll show me yours

by falmer on May 5, 2010 9:10 PM PDT reply actions  

Your last sentence brings just one thing, I say, brings one thing to mind..

and on the 93rd postseason of the National Hockey League, the Slovakian-hockeygod Zeus commanded from high atop Mount Figueroa..."RELEASE THE MEAT TRAIN!" And it was good.

by DodgerBlueBalls on May 6, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

ah got sompin comin to me and ah wannit raht now!

listen to me boy when ahm talkin to yuh.

Wait till this year.

by Quisp on May 6, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, No, No, you got it all wrong, boy!

On Full Tilt Poker my screen name is IsayIsayIsayBoy.

End Corporate Personhood.

by Player-X on May 7, 2010 6:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

On another random note

Seeing as how the Kings have so many picks is it possible that they could try to package some and move up. Our pipeline is looking pretty good so maybe we try to move up and grab a better overall prospect inside top 10 or even top 5(I’ve heard Gudbranson is a Pronger like prospect that could be best D guy outside of Doughty in past decade).

So my question is what would it take to move up from 20 to inside top 10?

What about inside top 5?

I don’t know a lot about value of draft picks and trading up or down what to give or get.

by GoKings09 on May 7, 2010 1:39 AM PDT reply actions  

Kings have nine picks right now, which is actually a little light for Lombardi, who has had somewhere around 13-14 picks the last few drafts

as of right now, picks look like this:

Rnd# pick#
1 20 (19) (if MTL >2nd rnd)
2 43 (42); from PHI; D. Gauthier; (if MTL >2nd rnd)
2 50 (49) (if MTL >2nd rnd)
3 70; from NYR; Boyle
3 80 (79) (if MTL >2nd rnd)
4 110 (109) (if MTL >2nd rnd)
5 149 (148, 146) from SJS pick swap (if SJS <3rd rnd, if <4th rnd)
6 170 (169) (if MTL >2nd rnd)
7 200 (199) (if MTL >2nd rnd)

parentheses indicate picks that might move up, based on whether MTL advances to the 3rd round (Kings move up one) or SJS loses before they get to the cup finals (5th rnd pick from SJS would move up to 148 if SJS loses in the conference finals, and 146 if they lose in the current round).

Nobody’s going to trade a top ten pick for a bunch of lower picks. But moving up (or down, or even to a future draft year) in the later rounds is practically guaranteed.

What you would have to trade to get into the top ten, you wouldn’t want to part with.

Wait till this year.

by Quisp on May 7, 2010 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

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