Roster Quickie
by Quisp on Jul 27, 2010 12:56 PM PDT
in Could Happen
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PrintA few weeks ago, I grew a very long decision tree of roster possibilities, which is still down there if you scroll far enough. I just wanted to post a revised line-up projection, assuming that there are no other moves. There will be other moves, right? But we're assuming there aren't, because that's a good starting place.
Ryan Smyth - Anze Kopitar - Justin Williams
Alexei Ponikarovsky - Jarret Stoll - Dustin Brown
Brayden Schenn - Michal Handzus - Wayne Simmonds
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If Poni is the only winger signed this off-season it will only be palatable to me if the Defense is bolstered with a veteran.
http://www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jul 27, 2010 12:58 PM PDT reply actions
Yeah, defense looks really weak… our two problems were defense and 5-on-5 scoring (which was EXTREMELY evident in the Vancouver series). DL hasn’t done anything do rectify the defensive part. Because of Kovalchuk, the Kings couldn’t really commit to Martin (overpaid), Michalek (overpaid), Gonchar (overpaid and 35+), Volchenkov (overpaid), or Hamhuis (wanted to play for hometown Canucks anyway).
So I can’t really blame DL for not getting much done there. There wasn’t a whole lot he could’ve done.
Denis Gauthier sucks at hockey... and life.
I have pretty high hopes for both Muzzin and Fransson
but I may be irrational.
I think it’s somewhere between possible and likely Lombardi trades for a top four defenseman. But if he doesn’t, I will not be worried and I will probably be pretty lonely in my non-worry. There’s still the Lilja, Mitchell options, too. Although Mitchell won’t even be ready to take a physical for at least a few weeks, so the idea that he would be ready to start the season is, well, I can see some bumps in that road…
Wait till this year.
Split the difference
Clearly, the safe play would be to get a veteran for the top 4. But I think a good middle course between doing that and trusting to Muzzin and Fransson is to sign a veteran D UFA as a straight-up replacement for O’Donnell. That shouldn’t be hard to accomplish.
I am still sad DL didn’t want OD for even one more year. I know he was going after free agents, but come on. Even just his role as a mentor…
In Dinglebarn We Trust
Like the tree guy in lord of the rings
by Nut on Jul 27, 2010 3:26 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, that's why the idea of getting him into coaching made sense
Since he’s already signed with Philly for one year, I’m afraid he’s going to find that he hung up the skates a little later than he probably should have. :-(
I’m with you in your non-worry, and I’m pretty excited about those offensive lines!
by kings4queens on Jul 27, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t say Martin was overpaid. The guys at PensBurgh did a bit of analysis on him and comparable players, and he looks like he’s worth the contract.
by SmellOfVictory on Jul 27, 2010 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Count me in the ‘starting to worry’ group. If these are the lines heading into the season I think, on paper and not yet seeing the progression of the ‘kids’, that we’ve taken a small step backwards. Dean himself identified a top-six winger and defenseman as goals this off-season and so far, nothing. Not hating by any means, just saying.
With all that said, I think the goaltending will be better and one or two of the ‘kids’ will step up and fill a role that is currently a worry.
Ponikarovsky
is a top 6 forward. I’m a Leafs fan, so you might consider me biased, but despite his play in Pittsburgh he has consistently posted numbers that put him in the top 6 category in the NHL for the past 5 years.
He will not light it up on the PP but he is one of the top 30-40 forwards in the NHL for production at even strength… which last I checked was what LA needed.
He obviously doesn’t help the D issue, but you got part of what you asked for.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 28, 2010 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions
good point, i just looked it up
2.27 PTS/60 at even strength, which would have been good enough for second on the Kings last year, right behind Parse (2.34), and just ahead of Simmonds (2.11).
Wait till this year.
After reading his SBNation profile, this makes perfect sense to me
Good two-way guy who should score 20 goals, good in the corners, goes to the front of the net. Sounds like a direct replacement for the player that Frolov had to become under TM’s system, and perhaps an even better fit. Plus, he’s a bit bigger.
SBNation Scouting Report - is NOT accurate
take it from a Penguins fan
he dogs it
and he doesn’t use his size to his advantage
i think he scored 20 goals in Toronto only b/c the Leafs were regularly losing so badly that their opposition fell asleep defensively
he’s not a strong finisher, to say the least
i hope you guys have better luck w/ him
i just wouldn’t expect to get the player described in that scouting report
Disagree
of course some bias here – but Poni is a solid 20 goal guy – I don’t think just in Toronto.
He played terribly in Pittsburgh there is no 2 ways about it.
I wouldn’t expect Frolov’s output (30G), and he is weak on the body, but with a decent supporting cast he can be a solid addition.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 27, 2010 6:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes ... take the word of a Penguins fan who saw him play for the last 3 months
Or – take the word of a Leafs fan who watched him play closely for his entire career.
He doesn’t “dog it”, he just isn’t what you expect for a player his size. He’s a MASSIVE man… his shoulders are like 10 pin bowling balls – I kid you not. That being said, he doesn’t play a particularly physical game in front of the net. He is physical in the corners, and he does hit, but he isn’t one for whacking and crashing in the crease.
He is very solid positionally from a defensive perspective, and his hooking and holding penalties in the offensive zone will occasionally piss you off… but he isn’t as bad as this scouting report complainer is making him out to be.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
- Sir Winston Churchill
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the Leafs.
by Steve Burtch on Jul 28, 2010 8:21 AM PDT up reply actions
Poni’s good for 15-20 goals, and is a better defensively, 2-way player than Frolov. It’s a somewhat lateral move, but doesn’t really greatly improve the roster from if Frolov were in that slot.
Our best bet this year may just have to be to put our trust in that Smyth and Williams will stay healthy all year. That line was deadly until the injuries derailed them.
Denis Gauthier sucks at hockey... and life.
Growing Pains
Although I like most of these players. I feel like the Kings might take a slight step back in the standings with this lineup.
Schenn, Clifford, Muzzin and Fransson have the abililty to become good, effective NHL players. I just think that replacing veterans with these rookies might cause a slight loss in the standings.
However, this could just as well be offset with improved play from Kopitar, Doughty, Johnson and Brown. All players who are young, improving and have not reached their peak.
Overall, I still think the organization is headed in the right direction, but don’t be surprised if we take half a step back before we take 2 steps forward.
Having said that, I still think this will be an entertaining team to watch and grow with.
some of the experience lacked by our defense may be overshadowed by the play of what we all assume will be the one two punch of Quick and Bernier. A calm confident goaltender translates into calm confident defenders…this may allow them to grow up a bit over the first few months and hopefully by Christmas begin to come into their own and play well…if not there is always the trade deadline!
"It's not illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane."-Alan Garner
Agreed. I think a calm Bernier back there has the potential to settle the defense. However, 2 rookies on defense is tough. I gotta think the Top-4 Defense position will be filled from outside the organization.
We have to be in the process of acquiring another veteran. We just have to be.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
Sadly, few teams seem to be. Maybe the Islanders want some help reaching the floor. Haha
by SmellOfVictory on Jul 27, 2010 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha
That is every team’s fans’ solution to everything!
I hear they are taking Jeff Finger too!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 28, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought Finger was going to be the cornerstone of the Marlies Calder Cup run in 2010-11 though?
The Spirit of MeatTrain'10!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 28, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Plan B!
I think he’s already getting a ton of votes for Marlies Captain.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 28, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think this has been emphasized enough.
Assuming Bernier continues to play the way he has at the NHL-level, he can be a solid (and potentially spectacular) “addition” to the Kings next year. Quick won’t have to play as many games and competition keeps both goalies sharp.
Yes. Which is why we are not looking to move either Quick or Bernier (at least not this season). For us, good goaltending is pretty crucial. If you look back at last season, we’d have had a higher spot and better results in the playoffs if Quick hadn’t suffered that post-Olympics burnout slide.
We can also expect that the other players in our young core will continue to improve.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
Any thoughts on what the breakdown in games will be?
Bernier has never played more than a handful of NHL games. Quick started 87% of the regular season games last season. I’m thinking 70/30 Quick unless Bernier takes the bull by the horns?
I have no idea what’s in Terry Murray’s mind. I know I personally wouldn’t mind 70/30 or 60/40.
All this is dependent on how he performs, though, as you say. But I felt sorry for the way they used Ersberg. He wasn’t getting any kind of regular rotation.
At least we know he thinks he over-used Quick, so we won’t see that again.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
I actually always appreciated the way Marc Crawford handled Labarbera and Garon; he would play one until they had a bad game, then switch to the other one. It let the Kings ride a couple hot streaks while avoiding cold spells. Then they both got hurt and everything went to Hell, but it was a good idea in theory.
You are making me appreciate Marc Crawford. I need to go lie down now.
Seriously, that should work.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
A frightening thought!
Actually, I think it was a good strategy for experienced guys (and both LaBarbs and Garon had been around long enough to know what’s what) because it keeps the pressure on and keeps you from getting complacent.
With young goalies who are less experienced and less grounded… maybe, maybe not. There’s a reason why Crawford was not a good coach for a young team…. Well, more than one, I guess.
I think they’ll start 70/30, but at the end of the year, Bernier will have more starts than Quick.
by Passemoilapuck on Jul 28, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Quisp...
I have to ask…will we see Moller in this line up?
I really like that guy….also heard reports he has bilked up a bit…is it a thought that he has seen his chance to make the line up come and go or is there still room for him? He has been in the lineup more than Clifford has he not?
"It's not illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane."-Alan Garner
I love Moller, as you may know. He has a little bit of waiver-exemption left, though, so
I expect he will get a lot of ice-time in Manchester until his services are needed. Same with Loktionov.
Clifford hasn’t played yet, except in pre-season. But I would be surprised if he didn’t make the team this year. I’m not an expert or anything. I just feel pretty good about that prediction.
Wait till this year.
I think Lombardi would be surprised, too
He said fairly recently that both Schenn and Clifford look like they’re just about ready.
And that sounds about right for Moller
I think that when he finally breaks in, it will because he will have a legit shot at the top 6. No more of this bottom 6 until you grow up monkeying around for him.
Wouldn’t Poni be a better fit on the Handzus line? Hmm.
Schenn a winger…I like it.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
sure, but i didn't want to depress people
anyway, we know Murray likes his pairs, “Handzus and Simmonds” “Brown and Stoll” “Kopitar and…somebody”
Wait till this year.
Dean agrees
From the Insider:
The Kings liked Ponikarovsky last year and went after him before he was traded to Pittsburgh.
The belief is that Ponikarovsky has the potential to fill that third-line left-wing role, alongside Handzus and Simmonds. Lombardi described him as being a stronger skater than Frolov, but perhaps less skilled with the puck.
Interesting that we tried to pick him up last season. I can imagine how that went.
Burkie: I want some of your good things.
Dean: No.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
by Niesy on Jul 27, 2010 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My lineup would be like this:
Smyth-Kopitar-Williams
Ponikarovsky-Stoll-Brown
Richardson-Handzus-Simmonds
Parse/Clifford-Schenn-Lewis
Westgarth, Clune
Doughty-Scuderi
Johnson-Hickey
Greene-Voynov/Muzzin/Drewiske/Harrold
Interesting quote from Twitter by Helene Eliott
He was always last on the ice for practice and first one off. When practices were optional he always opted out. Poor defensive coverage too.
I’m almost positive she was talking about Frolov, although I may have been mistaken.
It was definitely about Frolov. She addressed that comment to Arthur Staple, a reporter in NY.
I find it odd, given that she defended him so much during the TM clash.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
maybe she had a love/hate relationship with him….
"It's not illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane."-Alan Garner
maaaaaaaybe
maybe he was last out of the locker room and first back in the locker room because he was hiding from her.
Wait till this year.
I threw up a little bit in my mouth when I saw the defensive pairings laid out…. I mean, I know they need another defenseman, but that’s pretty awful….
I would suggest the name Hickey to make the team to fill one of the open d-spots…. as it stands now, I have no idea who would play the point on the 2nd PP unit. I’m going to go out on a limb and say neither Matt Greene, nor Rob Scuderi would strike fear into opponents’ hearts when they were teeing it up from the blueline.
View From My Seats
Sarcasm: God's gift to smart people...
Maybe Hickey or Fransson
If one of them makes the team. Stoll could end up playing the point some too. Doughty or JJ could be double shifted to keep them out there too because pretty much all the time this past season one of them at least was out there on the PP.
look, if that's your concern, there is Hickey and Voynov, but let's wait to see what Fransson's got
this is not some random 20 year old. he’s a 25 year old high-second round pick. he may be exactly what you’re looking for. or he may suck.
Lombardi can always add someone for the power play if he needs to. It’s not like he doesn’t have doughty and johnson. they can play all two minutes, for all I care. remember the first three games of the vancouver series. that was some fear.
Wait till this year.
I cant imagine TM doing anything but putting Doughty And JMFJ on the blue line for the PP…..
We had a deadly PP last year in large because of having those guys back there…they were separated a lot though, but after the van series i think they showed they can do the full two min and bring the pain hard-core to the brain of opposing penalty killers!
"It's not illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane."-Alan Garner
It always baffled me how last year the Kings stuck with Doughty/Stoll at the points on the PP for most of the season. Johnson was on the first PP line inconsistently, even as the PP struggled. Towards the end of the season and playoffs, the PP seemed to click with Doughty and Johnson at the points. Hopefully they stick to that game plan.
Doughty and Johnson played the whole two minutes in the playoffs, they can’t do that in the regular season. If they had played together the 2nd defensive pairing would have been Jones-Stoll.
oh dear god!!! Jones and stoll!!! So if Jones kept the puck in he would pass to stoll for the inevitable one timer over the net…
gosh i really hate jones…
"It's not illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane."-Alan Garner
Where's Hickey
Why is Hickey not mentioned on a possible roster spot? Is he still behind because of his injury last year?
no, in my own mind i clump hickey together with voynov, muzzin, martinez, fransson, even drewiske
i’m not down on him. i like him.
Wait till this year.
I still think the evil Jones was concussion-induced
He was never quite the same after that huge hit — the one that put him out of the lineup with something that wasn’t officially called a concussion — and I think it’s just a matter of adding 2 + 2.
yeah, i forgot about that, but i remember thinking that in january
i have to say, i was never anti-jones. he’s a good third pairing option. and he gave us some crucial points in november when kopitar and brown were asleep.
Wait till this year.
I was a closet Jones fan, especially prior to the concussion. I think a lot of fans expected too much out of him. I thought he did admirably well for a waiver pick-up but people were expecting him to be a top-4 defenseman for some reason. He moved the puck decently well but yeah, was never the same after that injury.
Agreed.
Jones was good for a waiver-wire pick up to serve as a transitional player until a better option becomes available. Life hands you shards, drink chardonnay
The Spirit of MeatTrain'10!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 28, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I may be slightly biased
But I like Scott Parse with Brown and Stoll… Poni goes with Zeus and Simmonds better… And that defense, oh… my eyes!!! Fransson will probably make the team, and we need to sign one more vet…
If the eyes are the windows to the soul, then these sunglasses are the curtains telling you to keep the fuck out!!!
You’re not too far off. According to Hammond, DL says Poni is our 3rd line LW.
http://www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jul 27, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I love Parse. But he is a guy who can playing defense, be physical (yes, it's true) and has "the hands"
so he’s very useful as the guy on the third/fourth line who gets to claw his way up to the top six every now and again.
I’m very happy that Parse is still here.
Now, about Bill Sweatt…
Wait till this year.
As I tried to say in the post, I'm not saying this is the starting night line up
It’s an exercise. This is who we’ve got now. The “irrational roster musings” post from a couple weeks ago is more fleshed out with different possibilities.
I meant to open up a discussion about remaining defenseman UFAs (Lilja, Mitchell) and trade possibilities. Bieksa is probably staying in Vancouver since Salo broke again, and that’s probably just as well.
Too bad Brian Campbell is so expensive for so long. I keep trying to figure out ways to make that work, but that contract is so toxic, it’s just not possible.
Don’t forget, in about a month we’re going to be seeing a lot of prospects, some of whom are actually adults (Kaunisto, Fransson) and many of whom know they are fighting for spots.
The Clifford spot will go to Clifford. But he has to get past Nolan, and Westgarth and I look forward to that. Not saying either of those guys is better in any way. But they (Nolan especially) might surprise a lot of people. When he was at the development camp last month, I said I thought he looked like a deranged lumbering Matt Moulson. In a good way.
Richardson was last year’s bounce-back hero, and we all love him, but Moller, Loktionov, Kaunisto, Elkins, Lewis, Cliche, Clune, Holloway, Parse, and Schenn will all be gunning for that spot, the fourth line center swiss army knife spot. I’m not saying Richardson is going to backslide. But six of the forwards on that list, plus Richardson, are competing for two spots. And I’m sure I’m leaving someone out. Well, there’s the whole Kozun/Azevedo/Roe/Dopey/Grumpy/Sleepy/Doc contingent. But I don’t think they’re ripe. Anything’s possible and I have no scouts. Just streaming internet.
Wait till this year.
need more meat
on that 4th line. Don’t forget TM and Dl like a fighter so Westgarth will probably play on 4th line. I see 4th line center getting filled by a guy like Halpern if we bring him back or another one of the reserves.
I don’t see Schenn on wing. Asking a rooking to switch positions right out of juniors and on top learn to play wing on a top six line? Not DL’s style given how he protects the kids usually. I see Schenn getting a crack at 3/4th center. DL would rather him grow in Manchester at least 1 year.
I think Richardson and Poni will rotate the 2nd and 3rd line left wing spot.
Hickey Fills the 2nd PP role
Hickey is just what the kings need on a 2nd PP. The strongest part of his game is his skating ability and his movement of the puck up the ice. I still think we need one more shutdown vet D Man but I think Hickey is half the battle.
Let's hope Hickey is ready
My main concern with him is that he lost a lot of ice time last year to injury. Can’t have helped his development.
I agree, that would be the only thing to hold him back this year which is very likely. If he is ready physically. I have seen him play in the WHL a few years ago, and from what I saw he was by far the most talented player on the ice, but what do I know haha.
He was the T Birds team. Pickard was a clumsy rookie and he carried that team single handedly. I saw him in spokane in his last game in the WHL in spokane in the playoffs. He was by far a leader on the team. Looked very promising.
First Time Poster - 25 year Kings fan and Big fan of the site
Quisp – Thanks for all of your work. Great job!
Stoll was briefly put on the 2nd line wing late last year and I think that is a great spot for him. I like him well enough, but he has about as much creativity as a brick and for a center, that isn’t ideal. He is hard working, responsible, pretty fast and has a good shot though, so I think that could make him an effective 2nd line winger.
Stoll on the wing opens up the center spot for Schenn and then he can use some of his creativity. If he has trouble on face offs, there’s no reason Stoll couldn’t step in and take the draws. The kid out there with responsible veterans Brown and Stoll on the wings sounds pretty good to me.
This also allows for Poni to be on the 3rd line where he is better suited.
Lastly – let’s not forget also that a healthy Williams is more like a new addition since we effectively had him only for the first quarter of the season or so.
true re williams.
the problem with stoll on the wing is it would ahve to right wing, wouldn’t it (?), since the left wing has the brunt of the defensive responsibility, but we’re stacked on the right side already. Smyth/Stoll/Brown, or Poni/Stoli/Browni, or, for that matter, Parse, Stoll, Brown, are all good combinations, I think. Parse did a good job of lighting a fire under Stoll last season. Remember Stoll was snake-bit until Parse was called up? I liked that line.
Yeah, healthy Williams. That will be good.
Wait till this year.
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