Helene Elliot Say The Kings Aren't Attractive
by Quisp on Jul 5, 2010 10:59 PM PDT
in Kovalchuk
39 comments
Kings have to figure out how to become more attractive - latimes.com
It's a chicken-and-egg dilemma for the Kings. They can't attract elite free agents until they become a Cup contender, but they can't become a contender until they lure players they haven't developed.
Really? What was the elite free agent the Penguins signed that led them to the cup two years ago? Actually, that was letting go of Hossa, who thought Detroit was more "attractive." How did bringing in Hossa work for Detroit? Eh. Fine. They were great without him and great with him, but not great enough. Was he the difference for Chicago? Enough to cancel out the destructive power of the deals for "attractive" UFAs Brian Campbell and Cristobal Huet? What was Anaheim's big UFA signing that led them to the cup? Pronger? That was a trade.
The way to be attractive when trying to attract people who are attracted to money is to offer more money than everyone else. If you're bidding against insane people (Wang), that's not possible.
They will try to fill holes with prospects such as centers Brayden Schenn and Andrei Loktionov and defensemen Thomas Hickey, Viacheslav Voynov and Jake Muzzin. That's a lot to ask.
I would say Schenn, Clifford, Muzzin and Bernier, maybe Loktionov the next year, maybe Hickey and Voynov then, too. It's good to have a couple rookies crack the line-up every year. Four is a lot, but I think those four are pretty special.
I think Plan B will be to shop Williams and maybe Stoll and certainly Ersberg in search of either a top-six forward or a second pair defenseman.
Because the Kings can't pick up and move to the East, they have no choice but to hope they have drafted and developed players well enough to become a choice destination before their talented kids become frustrated by early playoff exits and flee, and the rebuilding process has to start all over again.
Didn't take long to start taking playoff appearances for granted, did it?
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As they say...
This is a lady who really needs to get laid. (No thanks, I’ll pass. Next!)
I’m sorry. I know that won’t go over too well with many of you. It doesn’t go over well with me, in fact. But my girlfriend will be the first to chime in… When all the bumping and grinding and oooing and ahhhing is done, there’s a radically different perspective to consider: in the end, it all comes down to character. We don’t have to have the creme de la creme at LW, folks. We just need to have, at the end of the day, the winningest TEAM.
Give me Juraj Mikus, or give me death!
i'll show you my butt tattoo if you'll show me yours
I've mostly given up caring what Helene Elliott thinks
I still trust her as a reporter because she has access to people in the know. But as an analyst, I tune her out except as a sort of bell weather, as in, “Even Helene Elliott believes [X] nowadays, so you gotta figure something’s changing.”
Fair Statement
I say F’ Kchuk!, I will boo him every 2 years when he comes to LA, but in all honesty, can you blame him?
Look at the blues from the prior season, they looked like they were on the upswing with young talent, and fell flat on their face.
I definitely believe the kings have the makings of something great, but does the entire east coast even watch enough to believe that?
I think this is part of the the repercussions Kings ownership has to face for being a piss poor organization over the last 10 years. Let’s face it, we have sucked for the better part of 10 years, and if I was Kovalchuk I might have cold feet about signing my future away with the kings who have been a perennial loser and arguably one of the worst run NHL franchises. Believe me, I hate to admit it after 30 years of season tickets.
We need to trade a few prospects, and prove to the world we are legit for a couple years and then these things won’t happen… until then we need to over pay
by 4thliner on Jul 6, 2010 12:57 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Hey, I don’t like Helene Elliott either. But the sexist comments are not necessary at all.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
Yeah, it’s pretty unnecessary. Comment on her writing, not her person.
by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 6, 2010 6:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Concur.
But this gives me a good idea.
I wonder, literally, what the best-looking NHL team is.
Wait till this year.
Couldn’t agree more with Niesy. Helene Elliot’s “insights” & “musings” should provide us with more than enough fodder to have some fun. We shouldn’t resort to sexist remarks.
The Spirit of MeatTrain'10!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 6, 2010 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I think this overstates the importance of team that's established
It’s about money. Let’s be honest. And with contenders locking so many free agents down for so long, it won’t be too long before people are begging to sign in Los Angeles, because you guys still have the cap space to pay them top dollar.
by Peter Raaymakers on Jul 6, 2010 6:48 AM PDT reply actions
For those too young to recall and before the growth of blogs Elliott was perhaps the sole source of any in depth hockey reporting in LA Papers (outside of two paragraph game recaps).
Ms. Elliott also took time to personally respond to readers thoughts and questions. Like her reporting or not she should be appreciated for her contribution to hockey in Los Angeles and treated with respect both as a person and a promoter of Kings Hockey.
by USHA#17 on Jul 6, 2010 8:38 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Ms. Elliott also took time to personally respond to readers thoughts and questions.
That is very, very true. I’ve taken issue with her several times and sent her multiple emails and she replied each time, in length, and carried on a back and forth with me. She deserves credit for that, IMO.
I agree with you except to the degree that
she takes every (or nearly every) opportunity to make snarky, exaggerated or distorted comments about the Kings, as if the team is somehow reflecting poorly on her personally or she is entitled to a better effort, or a better management team or she just deserves a better lot in life and the Kings’ eternal loserness is crapping all over everything. Things like (paraphrase) “better watch out or Doughty will get fed up and want out of town!” or (paraphrase) “Hey Anchutz, you better check out Lombardi because he’s sabotaging the team with his giant ego!” are at best hysterical and at worst intentionally malicious. It’s only the fact that she is no longer the only game in town that makes this in any way tolerable. Imagine if we had to get all our information from her.
She was only the sole source for about ten years. Before ’89, she covered the Islanders.
The fact that she responds to people personally is excellent. It makes me feel bad about criticizing her on a blog. I just think she has an ax to grind regarding Lombardi in particular and it comes through in about half of what she writes.
Wait till this year.
Agreed. She is definitely snarky and has a serious axe to grind, which was the thrust of almost every email I’ve sent her. She also has a very strange fascination with big ticket free agents and, as you pointed out, seems to believe you can’t win a cup without one.
Here’s my sign off from our most recent exchange: Anyway, can’t wait to hear you sing Dean Lombardi’s praises in the near future, and best wishes this holiday season. Clearly I must extend the definition of “near future”…
Yeah, she really doesn't cut DL any slack
Any praise of him is grudging. I agree completely.
But what you see as a sense of entitlement, I tend to read as a pose, in which she fancies herself a hard-bitten, no-BS journalist. To that way of thinking, the worst thing in the world is to look like a booster or a homer, or to look like you’re soft or credulous. That’s where the snark comes from. In that belief system, it’s better to err on the side of being harsh and negative than to look soft.
The problem is that after a while, maintaining the pose becomes more important than writing stuff that’s, y’know, accurate, fair, or insightful. The pose obscures whatever anaytical intelligence you actually have. And I think that’s where Elliott is now.
It has been clear to me from the first interviews that Lombardi gave after the Kings brought him in that he is the best GM the team has had in many a long year, almost certainly the smartest and most capable that they have ever had. Not all of his moves have worked out well, but clearly he has a plan that makes sense and overall, he knows what he’s doing. As long as you follow the Kings closely enough, I don’t think you have to be that smart to see that and give him credit accordingly.
When a casual, mostly uninformed fan criticizes Lombardi, that’s one thing. But when a beat reporter like Elliott, who has superior access and constant contact with the team, doesn’t, I have to conclude that she really isn’t all that smart. Or she does realize it, but she’s being dishonest in her writing. Either way, it speaks poorly of her — and of the LAT for paying her to write for them. Honestly? I think Connie and Quisp would do a much better job of covering the Kings beat if they could do it full-time.
Oof. typos.
“But when a beat reporter like Elliott, who has superior access and constant contact with the team, does it, I have to conclude that she really isn’t all that smart.”
Playoffs?
First, Kuklachuk—nice idea but wrong guy. Perhaps DL started to believe his own hype.
Next, Playoffs? With three rookies (not counting Bernier)? Humm…
The problem with young players is irrespective of talent they often have not yet developed the stamina and body size required for an 82 game grind.
Doug-X commented in my fan post that the Kuklachuk chase didn’t really cost the Kings in the FA market. Perhaps…had the Kings made offers which were declined.
Since speed was a missing element in the Chicago fire sale Doug-X may be right as far as offense. The real loss was not making any offers to shore the defense or the 4th line.
At this point
1) Perhaps DL will pull another rabbit with another crafty veteran…or as Elliott states, an undeveloped talent
2) Bernier/Quick combo will provide two to three wins that slipped away last season
3) At least one call up is 2nd line material
4) Westgarth (or Clifford) will be ready
5) Don’t waste cap money, continue with a deliberate development plan.
6) O’Sullivan is picked up by a Pacific Division Team other then the Kings.
We have a few months to chew on all this stuff, but
There’s no reason to question the Kings’ ability to make the playoffs this year. Dallas, Anaheim, Minnesota, Columbus, Edmonton are either getting worse or standing pat. Phoenix, Colorado, Nashville, LA, are all going to be at worst right there jockeying for the 4-8 spots. San Jose is trending down, Detroit is trending down, Chicago is not Chicago anymore, so we’ll see, Vancouver will still be pretty good, of course. Calgary is a nightmare, but more perverse things have happened than seeing them be good anyway. I actually think Nashville and LA have the best shot at improving.
If anything, Detroit, Chicago, Vancouver, Phoenix, Colorado, San Jose, L.A., Nashville will be closer together. Last year I predicted an eight-way log-jam for the 5-8 spots. This year it’s more like an eight-way log-jam for the 1-8 spots. not exactly, but you get the idea.
I believe Bernier, Muzzin, Clifford, Moller and Schenn all have a pretty good chance of making it this year. They won’t ALL make it. But Bernier will, and two or three of the others will. Westgarth might be ready, might not. I’m interested in watching Nolan in camp, compared to Westgarth.
I would not be surprised to see Williams and/or Stoll dealt this summer, for one of those missing pieces.
I don’t know if Bernier/Quick will get us more wins. But it’s reasonable to expect the Kings to finish with more than 100 points.
I think a great plan B is to realize that Bernier will make the team better, and to that end get an upgrade of O’Donnell (Willie Mitchell, whoever) to make the team more defensively solid. Really baton down those hatches.
Try to trade for a top-six forward (Williams and Stoll for Briere? Iginla?), if not…don’t sweat it. Put Simmonds and Parse in top six roles. Before [everyone] takes my head off, I will just point out that both these players led the team in PTS/60 and they were the only two who approached Kovalchuk numbers in GON/60. More ice-time for those two will only help us, provided Parse overcomes his consistency issues.
Resign Frolov and/or Modin? I have some ambivalence about either. I would be happy with a Modin signing. And even though I have some Fro doubts, I like Fro at $3.75MM more than I like Kovalchuk at $8.75MM. At least Fro plays defense. And he’ll score more than 30 goals this year. Which means, what — with Kovy we would get 10-15 more goals and a few more goals against, so a net of maybe 10? Ten goals?
Moller is a sniper. Parse is half of one. Give them a shot. Make everyone look bad in retrospect.
Wait till this year.
I love the idea of signing Willie Mitchell – if he’s fully recovered. That could really improve the Kings defense significantly next season.
The Spirit of MeatTrain'10!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 6, 2010 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I’ve always felt Frolov could rise to a new level if he lost that “Euro-softness” and added some edge.
Your assuming Fro breakout year. It just as likely for him to continue at his current level, at least if he resigns with the Kings…old habits, same system.
So, at $3.75 would you stick with Fro or consider a player like Ponikarovsky?
I felt perhaps 6 points (like the NJ win) were fluky. I am thinking the Bernier/Quick combo improvement will be enough to insure we’d still pick up a few points like that here and there regardless of the new lineup.
Frolov has scored 30 goals in two of his last four seasons.
So I don’t know what his “current level” is, really.
Wait till this year.
I think Fro has become a more complete player, too
I don’t think he’d have to score 30 to be worth $3.75 mil/year. He’s been a pretty decent defensive player under Murray’s system, and his puck possession skills make him relatively valuable to the Kings.
I don’t know what happened to Fro’s shooting percentage this season. He usually shoots at a pretty high rate (.140 career avg), but this season it was .104, the lowest since his rookie year.
I hadn't noticed that Rudy but that's really good news for Fro
because it has been established that aberrations in shooting percentage (like SV%) always always always revert to the mean over time. For example, Cammalleri was shooting at a ridiculous rate for the first two rounds of the playoffs, and it was predicted (by Gabe, I think) that sooner or later, he would regress to the mean (as would Halak) at which point, the game was up. And he was right.
So one would expect Fro to shoot more “average” next year, which means more goals.
Wait till this year.
- gave me a little laugh. Well played, USHA
The Spirit of MeatTrain'10!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 6, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
I meant to say that your #6 comment made me laugh, USHA. Stupid SB Nation auto-formatting got the best of me.
The Spirit of MeatTrain'10!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Jul 6, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
After reading this, I'm wondering what free agents she was wanting the Kings to attract.
You're living in a parallel universe. Do not attempt angle parking.
January 11, 1976
biased much? axe to grind?
Now that she reported that the Kings are back in talks with Kovy, her whole article might end up being an epic overreaction.
Meanwhile, in the Twittosphere, Lebrun gave props to DL with “If Kovalchuk does sign in LA, it was a strong poker play by Lombardi to break it off and have player come back to him….”.
Helene was quick to reply "or a bad play by his side in overestimating what he could get on the market. "
She sure wouldn’t want to give any sort of credit to DL… I haven’t seen fair and balanced reporting like that since the last time I watched FoxNews!
HE's latest on the Fabulous Forum Blog is entirely reasonable
Perhaps she has been chastened, at least for the moment.
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