Rumor: Kaberle for Moller and a pick? BLEGH!
by Quisp on Aug 12, 2010 11:35 AM PDT
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PrintHockeyBuzz.com - Matthew Barry - Kaberle - What's He Worth?
So what does Brian Burke wind up with? He's asked for a top 6 forward, and/or a draft pick. Would you be willing to trade a precious 1st round draft pick for a possible one year rental? According to one source, the Kings are offering Oscar Moller plus a draft pick - I know, I know, this ain't gonna get it done, BELIEVE ME, I know it ain't gonna get it done, which is why Lombardi doesn't get what he wants... because he DOESN'T overpay.
I don't know if that would get it done or not, but I wouldn't trade Moller for Kaberle straight up. I wouldn't trade Moller for Kaberle and a 1st. But, what do I know? I'm nuts.
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I know you like Moller. This would be like me reacting to some trade involving Hickey. LALALA do not want LALALALA.
which is why Lombardi doesn’t get what he wants… because he DOESN’T overpay.
Because Lombardi is absolutely dying for one year of Kaberle? Umm…should he be?
Hey, let’s look at it this way: he only wants x if it costs y. Funny how conditionals can work like that.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
Please don't hate me
But I would drive Moller to the airport if it meant Kaberle and a 1st (how do crazy trade rumors sound now, Leaf fans)!!! Sorry, Quisp!
I said I was nuts, didn't I?
However, I should clarify:
in a vacuum, is a 32 year old Kaberle better than a 21 year old Moller, for this season’s team? Absolutely.
My issue is this: who would you rather have on your team, a 26 year old Moller or a 37 year old Kaberle?
I f***ing hate those “ship out prospects for old diminishing returns guy” trades. And as far as the guy having only one year left on his contract, why would we want to re-sign him with all the prospects in the pipeline. I don’t think it’s a risky bet that one of Hickey, Voynov, Deslauriers or Muzzin is going to be able to put up 8 goals and 40 assists per season, which is what Kaberle does.
Wait till this year.
A mistake the Kings have made all too often
That is, this thing about trading high picks/young players for guys on the downside of their careers — oh, I’m sorry, make that, “proven veterans.”
Any Kings fan with a sense of history should hate those kinds of trades.
Yeah, that was the worst aspect of the Gretzky years
The Kings tried to surround Gretz with his old Edmonton guys, but it was all 5-10 years too late. Kurri, Coffey, Huddy, Fuhr — even when you get down to the “character” guys like Krushylniski and McSorley — we got them on the downslope. So naturally, that created a team that played like it was past its prime.
A stronger, shrewder GM than McMaster would have kept guys who were still in their prime (Robitaille, ahem, ahem) and looked at bringing in players who were close to or still at the top of their form.
Man, remember the man-crush Melrose had on guys like Gary Shuchuk? I’ll always love Gary for that 2OT goal vs. Vancouver but Barry went so overboard on the ‘gritty players’ with little talent. Somewhere there is a psychologist who could make a pretty good case that he was channeling his own professional career…
UGGGGGHHHHH McMaster was the worst for that…
by AnnihilatorRich on Aug 12, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I say instead of asterisks, which got Quisp banned, we should go with the Johnny Dangerously lexicon.
Quisp farging hates those bastiches that trade prospects for diminishing returns veterans.
End Corporate Personhood.
ILWT=If Lies Were Truth
End Corporate Personhood.
by Player-X on Aug 13, 2010 5:37 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, let’s go easy on them now. After all, they did apologize for all the crap they said about Quisp being biased and raving and finally admitted that the league did have a case…
Oh wait, none of them did that.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
Oh no. They are still in the right. The terrible, no good, insanely stupid lawyer Richard Bloch has taken the clearly written CBA and violated the heck out of it. Baaaad arbitrator. Bad. Bad. No cookie for you.
I’m betting they wait until Kovy signs to get their gloat on again. But it would be nice if they examined their own conduct. We’d respect them if they did. And it would be civil.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
I almost hate to say, "don't be surprised if he doesn't sign there."
my guess it means lou has to be willing to go above $7MM and Kovalchuk has to be willing to go down to something like 13 years $91MM. will lou go that high? will kovy go that low? stay tuned…
Wait till this year.
I keep getting the feeling that the longer it goes the more likely it is that he finds/signs a 1-2 year deal somewhere for 9-10 million, puts up big numbers knowing he is playing for another deal, and then assesses the situation following the 2011-2012 season. Then again, I just verbalized it so now it will never happen…
I honestly thought they had a backup deal in place. But then again every contract negotiation involving Kovalchuk seems to take three times as long as you think it should.
Maybe I keep saying I think he’ll remain a Devil because I don’t want us to go there again. I don’t even know anymore.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
The problem I had with the whole "back up deal" idea
was and is that if they could have made a deal for 13 years, they would have done it on 7/1. Subtracting the parts of the deal that caused its rejection puts the negotiation right back where it was in the first couple of weeks of July.
I don’t assign any special value to the idea that Lou and Kovi had a press conference and it will be embarrassing to go back now. LL is not going to offer up $8MM cap hit for 13 years because otherwise he would be embarrassed. And Kovalchuk isn’t going to lower his price as a PR move. He knows the only truly damaging PR is sucking.
Just remember that, for three weeks, when it was just Lou and Dean tossing around variations on $5-6MM cap hit for 12-15 years, Kovalchuk wouldn’t accept either and/or was paralyzed with indecision, like (as I said at the time) the donkey who starves while trying to decide between two identical bales of hay.
Wait till this year.
if they could have made a deal for 13 years, they would have done it on 7/1
Good point. I was thinking that after they knew it was going to arbitration, something was sketched out. But of course, it’s Kovalchuk. And he has a lot of stubborn ideas that he’s worth Ovi money. (What is up with that?)
I don’t assign any special value to the idea that Lou and Kovi had a press conference and it will be embarrassing to go back now.
I’m not talking about Lou or Kovy being embarrassed. I’m talking about the ownership facing enormous fan backlash, which translates into loss of revenue. That is important They already had attendance issues in the new arena; Kovy would do a lot to fix that. Therefore, I don’t know how much pressure is going to be put on Lou to get it done at all costs. Without Kovalchuk, of course, the team is just fine; but try telling fans that. You know how some Kings fans felt entitled to Kovalchuk all along? This would be worse. We haven’t seen rage yet.
I also find it amusing when Devils fans say “Kovy said he wanted to be a Devil, he has less leverage, he can’t go anywhere else now!” Oh, please. He will say whatever he wants to say to get fans of his new team to believe in his change of heart. After all, he even convinced Jersey he “always wanted to be a Devil.”
However, he does know that LA won’t give him the same kind of money NJ will. And NJ needs him to stay. So they’re stuck.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
the devils have about 2000 unsold tickets per game. i’m not interested enough to get the real figures, but let’s assume the average ticket price is $40 and they get an average of $10 in concessions per person (which seems low, but what the hell). That’s 50 bucks per ticket or $100,000 per game. Times 41 games is about $4.1MM. If the average unsold ticket price is $30, reduce that figure to $3MM, etc..
So, right now, they can pay a guy $10MM in salary on a front loaded contract, and next year another huge chunk for Parise — call it $17MM (which is low) in cash, in order to bring in that $4.1MM in receipts. They’re going to sign Parise, so let’s just subtract him out of it. So you’ve got $10MM invested in bringing in $4MM. And you hope for some playoffs revenue, although you’re already counting on a couple of rounds (since that’s typical) so you have to ask yourself if Kovalchuk is really going to put you over the top and get you those last two rounds worth of games.
Maybe they get a better TV contract or something, but I don’t know how that works. I think the league is the controller of that. Per that darn CBA.
And that of course assumes they sell out every game with Kovalchuk, instead of playing to 88% capacity.
Of course, that 88% capacity includes a quarter season of Kovalchuk. The previous season, without Kovalchuk, they were at 89%. So there’s no guarantee that his presence is going to translate into anything, profit-wise.
Wait till this year.
I don’t know enough about season ticket sales figures, or total revenue, etc, to even begin to answer your points. But they were 26th in the league in attendance before they built the Rock and then they were 24th after. And they’re not too far away from losing Marty. NJ wasn’t on anybody’s Kovy-radar until the trade with Atlanta broke, because he doesn’t really fill essential team needs. But in retrospect, it makes perfect sense if the ownership wanted to nab a star.
So if you trim the rest of the team to keep Kovy and Parise, but that star power maxes out season tickets for many years…does it matter? Does Lou win this argument or not? I don’t know, but I look forward to finding out.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
I forgot to mention — for what it’s worth, back before the FA period even started, I was talking with some ILWT people about what the upper limit was for both our teams given our long-term cap situations. I think I remember us agreeing that 8 million gets into Crazytown, but even 7 million is tight. Painful, but doable.
I guess the most interesting thing to me is finding out whether or not the Devils ownership will make Lou do something kinda nuts. After that press conference, can you imagine the fan backlash if this falls through? All those season tickets sold after the celebration? They need to fill that building.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
This is why I feel that Lou is in a corner with this Kovalchuk saga. Ownership wants him bad and Grossman already got NJ to agree to a $102 million contract.
It’s not going to be easy to get Kovalchuk to come down over $10 million to make the cap hit around $7 million on a 13 year deal. Also, Kovalchuk isn’t going to get very many years at $10+ million.
good thing you don't love the dodgers as much as you love the kings
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
by BoulderDodger on Aug 12, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Who knew that Joe Torre eanted the Chicago Cubs job this badly???
The Spirit of MeatTrain'10!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Aug 13, 2010 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions
eanted wanted
The Spirit of MeatTrain'10!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Aug 13, 2010 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Just when you think they’ve found every way to punch you in the dick, the give you the ol’ ball flicker
I like to think Billinglsey and Kershaw look at each other in the locker room and sigh, “This sucks.” Then Scott Podsednik leans over and says, “I know, right?” and they both stare at him until he leaves.
by RudyKelly on Aug 13, 2010 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's easy for Torre to WANT the Cubs job.
Specially the way his CURRENT team keeps fucking up.
Says the fan with the bag over his head
so so disappointing
I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours
by BoulderDodger on Aug 15, 2010 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Ha - Jokes on you!
We don’t even have a 1st!
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Where does Moller fit into our plans this year? He’s got Top-6 potential. Does Williams get moved, Simmonds get bumped up and Moller get 3rd line RW?
www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Aug 12, 2010 11:47 AM PDT reply actions
I’m pretty sure we dropped out of the running when we lost out on Kovalchuk. It doesn’t make sense to trade for Kaberle if we’re not serious contenders.
If we had gotten Kovalchuk I would have driven Moller to the airport, slowed down to 35, and kicked him out myself.
Moller just wears all the clothes he’ll need on his person. It makes long road trips kind of awkward. He only owns 2 pairs of shoes and he wears his extra pair on his hands.
MatLOLthew Barry
This is just another shameless attempt by Dancing Boy to generate web traffic at his hockeybuzz site. He sure knows how to stir the fertilizer…
The Spirit of MeatTrain'10!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Aug 12, 2010 11:55 AM PDT reply actions
Would there be a better offer from another team?
I can’t think of any off the top of my head who would give up a top-6 and a draft pick for a defenseman in a contract year.
Blegh is right. If that’s all we get for Kabby, i’d rather keep him. But it’s a question of needs: You guys have Doughty and Johnson, you don’t really need Kaberle enough to “overpay” (and sign him to a 5-7 year deal).
We don’t need a guy like Moller (or for that matter Simmonds) enough to give up Kaberle (who we don’t really have a replacement for). A first is nice, but it’s probably going to be a 20-30 so it ain’t that great. Brayden Schenn or Dustin Brown? Yes.
This is why I doubt we’ll see a trade between our two franchises.
it ain’t that much. We have actually built a pretty good stable of prospects (Last Hockey Future’s ranking put us 6th). So okay prospects don’t help much.
Burke wants a top6 roster player or top prospect (i.e. Brayden Schenn). A 20-30 pick is nice, but not what Burke is gunning for (he’ll probably just re-sign Kabby at that point).
Oh, and I don’t think we are getting Schenn, and I doubt Burke does either.
So I take it from your comment you don’t think Moller is a top prospect. I know your GM has a stiff one for Schenn, but I think other GMs (and probably Burke too) would consider Moller a good pick up. And you can’t consider Kaberle at full value because he only has one year left on his contract and he has salary Burke is trying to shed and the whole league knows it. Just like Gagne, who was a bit more important to Flyers fans than Kaberle probably is to you guys.
by Nut on Aug 12, 2010 6:51 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Do you think Moller’s a top prospect? His NHLE for last year works out to 28 points over a full season (consistent with his 22 NHL points over 74 games). That’s not bad for a 21 year old, but it suggests Top 6 potential, not Top 3/All-Star. He doesn’t excite me (but I haven’t watched him, hence my question to you all). Like samspade and nhlcheapshot said, we have a decent stable of Top 6 prospects (Mueller, Caputi, D’Amigo, Kulemin, Bozak etc) but lack high end talent.
Which no one will give up for a rental D-man.
So yeah, I don’t think a deal’s happening if Burke sticks by his “meet my price or I keep him” stance.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 13, 2010 6:07 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree, Moller maxes out as a top 6 guy (maybe 25-30 goals someday) but isn’t a high end talent. I also agree you aren’t getting a high end guy for Kaberle (no matter what some douche says pretending to be Rich Hammond)
Yeah, no Leaf fan with a brain thinks we’re getting Brown.
by The '67 Sound on Aug 13, 2010 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Gagne had a no-trade clause, apparently he only would wave it for Tampa.
And the Leafs aren’t trying to shed Tomas Kaberle’s salary. They are willing to trade Kaberle, but only if they get an offer that would be of equal or greater value to the team. If we don’t get that deal, Kaberle gets an extension and probably retires a Maple Leaf. Which, personally, I’d prefer to than getting Oscar Moller and a 20-30 pick.
Despite what his position says
Kaberle doesn’t actually play defense
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
I guess we will have to ramp up the trade rumors for March now...
…I wonder if Kaberle still wants to sign an extension with a team that was shopping him around for the highest bidder?
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