More Bloch Quotes from Custance
by Quisp on Aug 9, 2010 5:02 PM PDT
in CBA
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PrintCraig Custance has added more block quotes of Bloch quotes:
More from the report regarding finances:
"...The dynamics of this SPC, with particular reference to its final six years, are such that there is scarce reason for either Player or Club to continue the relationship. The incentives are strongly to the contrary. By year 11, the Player will have received $98,000,000 of his $102,000,000 contract, constituting some 97% of the bargain. One may reasonably ask, as the League does, whether a player who had been averaging some $9,000,000 a year will be satisfied to continue the rigors of an NHL season for a salary that (1) will average slightly more than $550,000 a year, (2) will represent a 95% reduction against previous average earnings and (3) will undoubtedly constitute compensation well below the then-applicable major league minimum. The economic incentives are not limited to issues of the Player's preferences, alone. During the final six years, the comprehensive "No Move" restriction will have been reduced to a "No Trade" clause. This additional flexibility will allow the Club to, for example, place the Player on waivers or send him to the minors. Here again, one may reasonably ask whether this Player would, at that point, accept such repositioning as an alternative to seeking continued employment outside the League or simply retiring."
This is the "reasonable explanation" argument I made a few days ago (see link in previous post, or visit the Kovalchuk section on the right left margin), noting that the arbitrator was allowed to (and did) factor in circumstantial evidence, and might require for any provisions of the contract a reasonable explanation that's not prohibited by the CBA.
I guess that point wasn't so loopy after all, was it?
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ILWT is never wrong!
They can just knock off 2 years and everything will be kosher. I would love to see NJ try it and get rejected again.
They will need to completely restructure the deal. I wonder if Kovalchuk will be happy about that.
Not one chance in a million...
KoveeBabee will never accept less than 102 million…
Egos are at stake.
Bank on that.
IQWT
i'll show you my butt tattoo if you'll show me yours
by falmer on Aug 9, 2010 5:08 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
And DVLesq.
He likes to keep his fire engine clean
It's a clean machine
by Joe Hockey Fan on Aug 9, 2010 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Welcome. Credit where credit is due. I have no doubt Quisp would say the same.
He likes to keep his fire engine clean
It's a clean machine
by Joe Hockey Fan on Aug 9, 2010 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I have to give plenty of credit back to Quisp. My interest was sparked by stuff on Hammond’s blog but greatly fueled by Quisp’s analyses and our subsequent discussions.
Fair enough. You two have knowledge and expertise way beyond average hockey fan’s, but from my point of view it looks like you compliment each other’s work. Check out the link I posted way below. It contains the arbitrator’s ruling in case you haven’t seen it.
He likes to keep his fire engine clean
It's a clean machine
by Joe Hockey Fan on Aug 9, 2010 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Bloch's wording in this passage could just as well be a long-cut way of discussing the Kavka paradox you cited EONS before this decision was rendered.
End Corporate Personhood.
by Player-X on Aug 9, 2010 5:21 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Devils' Fans Are SHORT-SIGHTED!!
They should be doing backflips and handsprings instead of complaining. Lou has Kovi by the short-hairs right now, and should be salivating. If I were him, I would offer him the same exact contract with one change: the money is paid $6 million a year for 17 years. If Kovie rejects it, he looks like the biggest throbbing hemorrhoidal anus in the history of the league. Because, you know, it was never about the money and he totally expects to play the entire 17 years. I guarantee the league would approve that contract.
I would agree, except...
There still is the KHL.
If I had to do a one-year contract, do it in the KHL for astronomical tax-free bucks/ruples/euros, then come back and have an NHL do-over.
KoveeBabee’s ego and the Agent’s ego helped create $102 million, to be able to say they beat out the ATL offer. That is the key. Beat out the ATL offer, or go to the KHL…
If Kovi Signed with the K..
He would still look like an idiot and a liar. Devils fans would then feel like Kings fans times infinity.
Seriously, if I were Lou, I would make that aforementioned offer in a heartbeat. And if Kovi rejected it, I would make it public and condemn the butthead in the court of the 4th estate.
The problem with the KHL is that there’s no guarantee you actually get the money. A lot of players over there aren’t getting paid what they originally signed for.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
The problem with the KHL is that there’s no guarantee you actually get the money. A lot of players over there aren’t getting paid what they originally signed for.
Apparently that’s now a problem now in the NHL, too. At least for Kovalchuk. It’s just that he’s not getting paid anything he signed for.
He likes to keep his fire engine clean
It's a clean machine
by Joe Hockey Fan on Aug 9, 2010 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions
This is what confuses me. Kovalchuk is a tremendous offensive talent with a hell of a shot, but he doesn’t play in his own end to any real degree. I don’t understand why a team that lives off of its defensive play would choose Kovalchuk over a two-way player like Parise.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
That Lou is a crafty one, but I agree completely with you.
He likes to keep his fire engine clean
It's a clean machine
by Joe Hockey Fan on Aug 9, 2010 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions
IVdBWT?
Rather than reasonably question Lou’s motives, I’d suggest trying to probe the mind of the NJD’s owner. It seems that in this case he had his own agenda, which may have had nothing to do with systems, player tendencies, or any other “logical” on-ice hockey factors. Think marketing, superstar quotient, and anything else that might make a big splash and translate into $$$ for his franchise. The interests of “the man who signs the checks” will always trump the experience and best judgment of any subordinate minds that may be responsible for putting together a successful team.
Besides, now that Brodeur is dissolving into the twilight, NJ is gonna need more than Zach and a new arena to kindle the illusion of hope in the minds of those who buy the tickets and invest in the billboards. What price PROFIT?
i'll show you my butt tattoo if you'll show me yours
It’s pretty clear the ownership is running the show on this issue. I still maintain that they will do anything it takes to sign him, even if it brings a crazy cap hit.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
Yes, and I think that explains a lot of why LL seemed so unhappy
I mean, considering that he had just locked up the services of a career 40-goal scorer. At the time, I figured he had put together the contract figuring that he would be would retire in a couple of years, after Brodeur, Elias,and all of his boys were gone and the team lapsed into rebuild mode while hampered by the IK contract.
Even Better...
Doesn’t that mean at least $1.5MM more Cap hit?
That’s at least one top-four defenseman or top 6 forward money…
i love this arbitrator. He acknowledges what everyone knows to be true (because it’s so obvious, especially from the contract structure) and uses it to make his decision instead of pretending that all that matters is Kovy playing til 44 is not technically impossible.
So Kovalchuk’s contract with the Devils has been “de-registered” and he’s a UFA, right?
And they’re reviewing Luongo, Pronger et al, right?
So if they “de-register” any of those contracts are the players then UFA as well?
He likes to keep his fire engine clean
It's a clean machine
I don't think so, but it depends...
Per 11.6(b) the league only has 60 days from the date upon which the facts of the Circumvention became known or reasonably should have been known in order to de-register existing contracts. So I guess it becomes a question of when those other contracts were signed and registered.
BUT, per 26.10(b) and (d) there is no time limit on investigating under Article 26 and it doesn’t matter that the contract was already approved.
So the league could go after those deals as circumventions and then levy fines and penalties against the parties if the arbitrator sides with them.
Which leads me back to my 2-process theory.
So who invoked the “May you live in interesting times” clause, anyway?
He likes to keep his fire engine clean
It's a clean machine
by Joe Hockey Fan on Aug 9, 2010 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I have an idea who invoked the interesting times clause...
The Spirit of MeatTrain'10!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Aug 9, 2010 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions
League Minimum
SOB, I was right. The league minimum issue was key. 550k will be a joke in those years.
Good call by Bloch.
God Loves the Kings
darn tootin
I’m a Leafs fan by nature, been lurking over here due to the excellent articles on this situation.
I can understand how it was circumvention but I don’t understand how the Hossa deal and all the others aren’t. Devils fans have every right to be upset because the league lacks any consistency or integrity. The league has already allowed teams to circumvent the cap. Basically the Devils just have to do it the way Chicago did and the NHL can’t do anything about it. Kovalchuk will still be a Devil and he will still have a cap hit lower than it should be. And you guys will still have Ponikarovsky.
Bloch does touch on the other contracts in a footnote and mentions they are being investigated. He says, in essence, that this one just went so much further than the others. He seemed to put a lot of weight on the fact that the last 6 years of the contract clearly are not intended to be fulfilled, which is something different from the others, as is the higher maximum salary, the longer length, etc. You can read a good analysis here, including a link to the decision.
Well circumvention isn’t clearly defined in the CBA. You could make the case that a lot of contracts are circumventing the cap. Basically with the current guidelines any contract that doesn’t pay a flat rate could be considered circumvention.
I suppose that, technically, that could be true. But what you are really looking at in these situations is the intent of the CBA. The intent behind using an average rather than an actual salary to calculate the cap hit was no doubt to allow the teams some flexibility to structure deals to fit their internal budgets, the needs of the players, etc. And front-loading was probably even contemplated to some extent because when you look at it, a descending salary is not that unusual. But the last few years, the contracts have been straying more and more from the spirit of the CBA. And while the other ones strayed off course, the Kovalchuk contract went not just off-road but into outer space.
I saw a comparison that one of the hockey writers posted of the Kovalchuk contract and a few of the other “questionable” ones. If I recall correctly, the next most “troubling” contract had a difference between the cap hit and the maximu actual salary that was only 2.6M, where Kovy’s was 5.5M. And the percentage difference between the lowest year and highest year was in the teens while Kovy’s lowest year is just over 5% of what his highest year is. Even tho I had looked at some of the numbers before, that one was pretty eye-opening.
I’m just catching up on this news (was in Santa Cruz all day) … and wow! just wow! Quisp you said all along the NHL had a case, you showed them why the NHL had a case – and you were damn right! So tell me, how does it feel??
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
I am reminded of cults that base their whole existence on the world ending on a certain day
and then that day comes and goes, and somehow the cult just rationalizes it and keeps on chuggin’ along, like nothing happened.
I don’t think there really is any “showing” people. Certain people, anyway. I’m sure they’ve got their self-validating echo-chamber turned up full throttle. My guess: it’s a conspiracy, Bettman hates the Devils, etc.
One thing I did think, though: I’m glad I didn’t miss some big obvious piece of the puzzle and turn out to be wrong.
Wait till this year.
by Quisp on Aug 10, 2010 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Its actually
funny that you say that about how its a conspiracy. Ive read that a few different places and it just baffles me. How is that people honestly believe its a conspiracy against the Devils; its just outside the constraints of logic apparently.
Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination.-Oscar Wilde
I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.
I just got
back from perusing ILWT, and its like it just wouldnt sink in. People are still arguing that the contract is legal etc etc. Really? If that was the case it would have been ruled as such. It was ruled as circumvention and that it wasnt legal and the fans at ILWT are just not accepting it and yelling “Conspiracy!” Hilarious.
One Kings fan got railed for trying to say his opinion, which was by no means offensive, and just got hammered for having an interest in the Kovi saga. This whole thing transcends team allegiance and was just one hell of an interesting saga, period. Oh well, from the get go a majority of NHL fans knew that the contract wouldnt stick, but apparently we all are part of the conspiracy.
Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination.-Oscar Wilde
I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.
yeah I was reading it over there … problem is they never once saw the other side of the argument, no matter how many times / or ways you tried to show it to them. they were dead set that this is the only path and only conclusion. at some point, if the end result doesn’t end up as planned, you have to think they would retrace their thinking and go “ah ha! that is where I went off track”. but that hasn’t happened.
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
Denial is not a river in Egypt.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
The thing is, Angy, they had built-in their response to an undesirable outcome well in advance
If they really “knew” or “believed” they were right, they wouldn’t have bothered. Thus, the banning, deleting, accusing, frothing, etc..
The folks you’re talking about would never “retrace their steps” because they never took a wrong step. Lots of people think this way. Their problem, over at ILWT, is that they’re just not up to job of actually being able to look critically at the assigned reading.
Reading their exchanges, I feel like I’m listening to a group of kindergartners fiercely debating how Santa gets into houses that don’t have chimneys.
Wait till this year.
by Quisp on Aug 10, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
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