Told You So 2.0 (WARNING: Kovalchuk content)
by Quisp on Sep 13, 2010 6:03 PM PDT
in CBA
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Print$3MM fine, no cap penalty, loss of 2011 3rd round pick, loss of 1st round pick in one of 2011-2014, Lou's choice.
Surprised?
No. Like I said:
About Those Penalties... - Jewels From The Crown
I keep reading that the fact that Bloch said the Devils and IK acted in good faith that the contract was in compliance with the CBA somehow means that penalties can't therefore be assessed. This is simply not true. The CBA doesn't make any distinction between an intent to circumvent and an action that has the effect of circumventing. It does not say that an "effect of" circumvention is a lesser charge than an "intent to" circumvention. It does not say anything at all about a standard requiring "intent" be shown as a prerequisite for penalties. [...] Bettman can have his penalties if he wants them. It's at his discretion. [...] In the Toronto case, a couple of years ago, they docked the team a draft pick, and there was no intent to circumvent at all. That in and of itself is evidence that the intent issue is a non-starter. So it would be weird if he didn't levy some kind of punishment [...]
Frankly, I'm disappointed that the league and the NHLPA agreed (as part of their amendment negotiation) that the league could assess fines without the required cap penalty -- but I imagine that was something the league had to relinquish in order to make the amendment happen.
Anyway, once Lou dumps a few million in salary, this chapter will be closed...just in time for hockey to start.
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but I imagine that was something the league had to relinquish in order to make the amendment happen.
Yes, just as I’m sure the league insisted that they still be able to punish them in some way.
If they’d been fined after they lost arbitration, before that agreement, it would be much worse for them.
In Dinglebarn We Trust
I still don't understand how it can be legal to negotiate new rules for punishment" in the middle of an "investigation through to punishment process
Or whatever the entire debacle was called… Seems like a guy goes on trial for 1st degree murder, and after he is found guilty but before he is sentenced, the D.A. and the Governor go to the defense lawyer’s Vegas condo for a weekend of discussions. Next thing you know, they tell the legislature that the law has been re-written, and the guy that was found guilty of murder with a mandatory life sentence got 10 years in the country club.
End Corporate Personhood.
Dude, if you ever go to law school, you are going to hate Administrative Law.
by Beantown Canuck on Sep 13, 2010 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I am just gonna stick to serving papers...
And I don’t even do that much Labor Law, much less Criminal, Family or Probate… Just Civil Litigation, thank you.
End Corporate Personhood.
Rehardless of the intent issue and how it relates to the necessity of a punishment...
(and it appears that intent is a non-factor with regards to a punishment),
Lou’s statement that was released today,
"We were today advised of the ruling by the Commissioner with respect to the Kovalchuk matter. We disagree with the decision. We acted in good faith and did nothing wrong. We will have no further comment."
…is classless, especially after he admitted during the first press conference that these type of contracts were no good for the NHL (paraphrase). Just man up and admit you were trying to be clever like the GM’s of the Blackhawks, Canucks, Flyers, Bruins, etc.
You got what you wanted (er, what your owner really wanted beside the lower cap hit) and you got your fine/loss of draft picks. Be honest about it now that its all over. Retirement’s not too far off it would seem so take the hit and restore some of that reputation you’ve built for so many fruitful years there in Jersey…
I bet Lombardi would have been more forth coming especially after hearing his CBA rant (inspirational and spot on in my opinion) during this past weekends Hockey Fest.
well, in Lou's defense, I don't think he's being dishonest or whatever, because he's making two points:
1) yeah these contracts, which apparently are allowed by the CBA, shouldn’t be allowed.
2) as long as they are being allowed, we assume they are kosher, and it’s only fair that we get to do what everyone else gets to do.
“2” is the “good faith.”
Also, he’s also been given leeway by Bloch to say those things, since Bloch mentioned (walking a tightrope) that the Devils and the player and agent didn’t think they were violating the CBA.
Wait till this year.
Mostly I agree...
…but when he says he, “did nothing wrong” after a verdict has been rendered stating otherwise, he is refuting the verdict and by extension he is denigrating the NHL’s system of justice. That’s where Lou and I agree, but for different reasons.
End Corporate Personhood.
Technically speaking, when he wrote the contract it was not “against the wording” of the CBA. It was against the IDEA of the CBA. I believe at one point he even stated that.
"In fact, it is probably safe to say, the statement "I am a hockey fan" is the same as "I hate gary bettman."- bfrank27
by Mike B on D on Sep 14, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
what happens to the first round pick?
Just curious but wouldn’t the NHLPA still want there to be 30 first round picks (or a total number of draftable picks?) so what happens? is there just one less in that draft year? does NJ keep a pick at the end of the draft? or is it considered moot because they can still pick up a UFA to complete their rosters?
I knew this guy would be jizzing in his pants about the fine… Focus on reporting on your own shitty team, that has no cup.
Devil for Life
by st.pattysdaymassacre26 on Sep 14, 2010 11:43 AM PDT reply actions
A fine addition to your catalog, Dutch...
… Hopefully we won’t hear any more of this insignifcant whining once the season starts. I think those of you who thought the Kings would EVER sign Kovalchuk simply just forgot which team you root for. The Kings don’t sign premier players; they haven’t for a long, long time. They dumpster-dive and jump on concussion cases.
… get the whining and crying out of your system. It’ll all be OK. If you feel the need to write ironic posts like this to solidify your e-cred, that’s fine. Your and Quisp’s sad little insults toward me don’t really matter much, and the "theorizing" done here only serves to make some Kings’ fans look really silly. Have fun with it, though.
… A century?!?! 50 years, tops [till the Kings win a cup]
The cup final???… Ohhhh, I assume you expect the NHL to adopt relegation, and that the Kings will drop to the AHL and play for the Calder Cup. I don’t really expect them to play the Devils for it, though. They’ll likely play the Rockford IceHogs or the Sodapop Valley YellowDaisies
About JT Dutch
Favorite Teams
Kings and Dodgers.
I don’t believe you though.
Wait till this year.
Kinda like we all knew ...
you’d show up with yet another brilliant and insightful (for a 2nd grader) “jizzy” comment of your own, regarding the blog, regarding the fine. (Which means you’re sorta sadly predictable … at best.)
BTW- your “shitty team” comment confused me, until I realized you were referring to the Kings.
You know. The Los Angeles Kings:
… that team out here in Cali who finished ONE whole win behind your Devils
… for a whopping total of 2 whole points on the season,
… and in a much harder Western conference,
… which EVERYbody who follows hockey knows (except for you, apparently.)
by OneTimer. on Sep 14, 2010 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Quisp, I’ve been meaning to ask, are you a lawyer?
by Beantown Canuck on Sep 14, 2010 2:16 PM PDT reply actions
I'm guessing no...
but he did probably stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night!
The Spirit of MeatTrain'10!
by DodgerBlueBalls on Sep 14, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I think LA dodged a bullet in terms of the Kovalchuk bidding war. His contract might look good for the next 5 years, but after that it’s probably going to become a pretty solid albatross unless NJ manages to take him off the books somehow at that point.
Regarding league defections/lending out players, anyone know if there’s a time limit on that, or could Kovy hypothetically be allowed to defect to the KHL after a few years and stay there?
It's called retirement.
But, no, the league doesn’t have an agreement with the KHL.
Wait till this year.
Haha yeah, but highly unlikely that he would retire before 39-40.
by SmellOfVictory on Sep 14, 2010 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, I would say it's not hard to imagine him playing that long, a la Teemu, however:
as of 4 years ago, these were the numbers:
of the 2323 NHL players ever to play at age 27, the total number of players to play to the age of 39: 46. 46 guys out of 2323. That’s… a little less than 2%, one out of every fifty.
The next year, you lose 15 more players, down to 25, around 1.5%…
Past 40…15 guys. 15 out of 2323 is… a hair more than 1/2%, or about 1:200.
Although, on the bright side, if you look only at former 50 goal scorers, 15 out of 89 played to age 39; which is about 1 out of every six. Not horrible odds. Not good. But at the far side of possible.
Wait till this year.
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