"Chemistry"
It's too early in the season to be having this conversation, but it's a Friday, the Kings are off, and everyone else is writing about Mike Richards' return to East L.A., I mean Philly. Nothing that I'm about to say rises to the level of accusation or firm belief; at this point, I'm just making notes (and that's kind of what a blog is, anyway).
- The Kings have allowed 6 goals at even strength so far.
- On ice for 3 even-strength goals against: Dustin Brown, Richards, Jack Johnson, Rob Scuderi.
- On ice for 2: Brad Richardson, Trevor Lewis, Matt Greene, Alec Martinez, Kyle Clifford.
- On ice for 1: Anze Kopitar, Justin Williams, Simon Gagne, Kevin Westgarth, Drew Doughty, Willie Mitchell, Trent Hunter, Ethan Moreau.
- Not on ice for any even strength goals-against: Dustin Penner, Scott Parse, Jarret Stoll.
- So far this season (!), the Kings lead the league in time spent 5-on-5 (51 minutes on average). The team that spends the fewest minutes? Philly, 39 minutes.
- So far this season, the Kings rank 22nd in team plus-minus 5-on-5.
- Brown/Richards are drawing the toughest match-ups so far.
- They don't appear to be as effective on this front as Michal Handzus/Wayne Simmonds. Obviously, it's too early to tell. Just something I'm noticing.
- If Richards/Brown are going to be the "stopper" line, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to have Richardson/Stoll/Hunter as a line whose value is primarily offensive. Wouldn't Richardson/Stoll/Lewis be better? Or Stoll/Andrei Loktionov/Lewis?
- I keep coming back to this thought: is Dustin Brown defensively a good fit for a stopper unit?
- The Gagne/Kopitar/Williams line is great so far. Brown and Richards, not good yet.
- I wouldn't be surprised to see Brown moved to Stoll's line, and...see, this is the problem. Richards and Lewis (I prefer this), Richards and Hunter (blecch), Richards and Richardson? If, having gone to great lengths to acquire a superstar center, the best we can do for his winger is Brad Richardson, there's something wrong.
- On the other hand, I can see Brown and Stoll reuniting and doing just fine. But doesn't that mean that Mike Richards is kind of the third line center? I know, the line numbers don't really mean anything.
- Maybe what we have here is the makings of a great third line in xx/Stoll/Brown -- as long as they aren't required to play tough minutes -- and a second line with a big hole at right wing.
- I guess we'll all have to wait for Richards and Brown to develop some of that chemistry we keep hearing about.
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Hey has it already been pointed out that the home-plate thing in the new blog logo Sleek did looks like a dreidel? Because it does.
Owen Nolan saw my cat.
Battle of California
by Megalodon on Oct 14, 2011 2:05 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m not going to lie, I’m in love with that white road jersey when they’re actually playing. It just looks so nice.
by RudyKelly on Oct 14, 2011 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Concern for me is that Dustin Brown, Richards, Jack Johnson, and Rob Scuderi are all on the ice 5 on 5 against the other teams best offensive players. TM, and Richards have both stated that those are the guys that Richards will match up against. 5 on 5 Kopi’s line can score against their best defensive match ups, but without someone to score against their best offensive players they have no way to bring up their +/-. 3 games and a -3 rating means the Kings aren’t scoring against the oppositions offense, and the goal differential still sucks. Hopefully it picks up, but this has been a huge problem for years already.
I question if the Kings recovered from that trip. I also wonder it Penner was 100%.
I’ve long felt Brown belongs on the 3rd line. He is an excellent defensive checker and is able to to generate bang-bang offense. He would be a huge on the 3rd line.
I would like to see Gagne and Penner swapped. Gagne can succeed on the 1st or 2nd line whereas Penner may prove more effective with Kopitar-Williams then Richards.
Doughty seemed out of gas several times. Spacing was a big problem with the defense corp.
Two years ago the Kings used to wear down teams. No more.
The Kings play like they do not believe they can mount a 3rd period comeback. This dates to last season. I blame coaching.
The Kings were lucky, having left so many trailers open NJ was too lame to take advantage.
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
I’ve long felt Brown belongs on the 3rd line. He is an excellent defensive checker and is able to to generate bang-bang offense. He would be a huge on the 3rd line.
I agree. I just think he makes too much to be a 3rd liner. Which is why I’d like to trade him and Greene for a really good right wing who can play either with Kopitar or Richards. Fill the Greene hole with Voinov. I know Voinov is considered a defensive liability but lack of offense is the team’s issue, not defense.
Personally I’d nix a Brown trade, he is just too good…and flexible.
I believe something will give on the back end. Lot of talent waiting and Moreau or Hunter can sweeten a deal.
But I can say I’m not impressed with the defense (defense corp or team play) through the first three games. Need to give it time however.
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
Just watching
The whole team looks tired. This will pass soon.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
The whole team looks tired.
They looked anything but tired for the first 12 mins of the game vs the Rangers and same for last nights game. They looked like world beaters. How do you go from looking like a SC threat to a team that will be hard pressed to make the playoffs in the span of minutes…. in two of the three games you play?
Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but maybe you’re right. Maybe it will pass. Time will tell.
uh
1. Opened the season with an impossible road schedule.
2. Run two full lines of guys new to the system.
That is how.
I am right.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Oct 15, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
OK, four new dudes
Gagne, Richards, Moreau, Hunter all with fairly key rolls.
18 days and 10 time zones and you don’t get that’s a rough road trip?
Anyways they were better tonight. Better not perfect.
Too bad Doughty had to get hurt but now VV is coming.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Oct 15, 2011 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with you 100%, Quisp. It’s too early in the season for having this conversation. So let’s not.
by m_and_m on Oct 14, 2011 3:37 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
well, I can't turn it purple by myself people
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Oct 15, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Might want to move Gagne back with Richards. Williams and Kopitar are going great together; anyone else you put on that line is probably going to look good, even Penner.
Any thought to the defense pairs? Scuderi has been solid but Mitchell has made some great defensive plays, especially 1v1. Perhaps he’d help out JJ more in his own end. Also, I’m loving the way Martinez is playing to start the season. He’s been very, very solid and is skating well.
How about moving back to the left side where he is a lot more confortable?
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
Don’t need to limit JJ’s even strength time, the team just needs to score against the guys JJ is covering. Not scoring against the other teams offensive players means whoevers covering them will be a minus, if no one scores against them. Defense is not the problem 5 on 5, offense is.
I keep coming back to this thought: is Dustin Brown defensively a good fit for a stopper unit?
My opinion? I don’t know if he is or not, but I absolutely don’t feel he’s a good fit for Mike Richards. Reflect on this if you will: clearly, very clearly Richards has a history w Gagne. Not suggesting that they should be together, But, Gagne is a very different type of player than Brown.
We also know that Brown can go cold offensively for a quarter of a season. So what happens at that point to the value of having a centerman like Richards?
I agree w Quisp (if that is what he said or suggested) that surprisingly we have a hole at right wing. Not in numbers, but in quality.
1. Why is everyone surprised we have a hole at right wing after we traded Simmonds. Of course we have a hole at right wing now.
2. A lot of Kings fans like to get down on Murray for juggling the lines too much, but at the same time all these same fans do is suggest constantly different line combinations . For once in the past few years, let’s just leave the lines alone for a few games and see what happens.
by HawaiiKingsFan on Oct 14, 2011 4:42 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
There may be a big hole at 2nd line RW is Brown is with Stoll...
But it takes a very little man to fill that big hole.
Ko-ko-ko-kozuun!
Bless you.
by Surly Jacob (JDM) on Oct 14, 2011 4:57 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
The problem is that Kozun sucked after his ill-advised "I guess I put the ball in their court" comment.
I think Toffoli will be the next prospect to debut at right wing. I would expect Cliche before Kozun, and that wouldn’t solve the RW2 problem, if we’re calling it a problem. The Murray solution, as we all know, will be to wait paaaaaaaatiently for Brown and Richards to develop “chemistry.”
Look I think it is really early to be talking about this now and I think we are being clouded by the negatives. Big picture is the Kings so far have 4 out of a possible 6 points on a very early and very long road trip. At any other time we would all agree this is a pretty good start. I’ve seen a team that really just doesn’t have thier legs under them for the majority of the game. I think this will come as soon as thier schedule gets back to some kind of routine. On another note isn’t playing Philly almost like playing a split squad game? Just sayin.
As for ‘just sayin’…… they don’t have 4 out of a possible 6 points. They have 3 out of a possible 6 points. Something Garrett and others were saying is it’s the Way they got these 3 points. Each game they’ve started well and then faded for essentially the remainder of the game (or a large part of said game). They were fortunate to have the PP in OT vs. Rangers to win that game + one point last night.
Given that level of play they would have to be extremely fortunate to beat Philly the way Philly is playing. They might and that would make one reevaluate the beginning road trip, but if they don’t then it would be 3 out of a possible 8 points. For any team that is trying to become an elite team, I think thats not even an average start to the season.
I agree with you basically. But the whole point of a blog is to audition ideas like this more or less in real time -- as opposed to waiting until "all the facts are in" as one might if one were a journalist
each little step in the thought process then becomes part of the dialogue in the “community.” i could of course keep these thoughts to myself, but that’s counter-productive since my role here is more or less never to do that. and many of us would be thinking these things privately anyway. this way, it’s all out there, open for discussion.
p.s. 3 of 6
I want to see Trevor Lewis alongside Richards
And yes, drop Brown alongside Stoll… So…
Penner/Richards/Lewis
Parse/Stoll/Brown
Clifford/Richardson/Hunter
So our second line is actually our shutdown line and our third line is our second line? Confusing…
Come at me, bro.
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I kinda like this option. My best hope I guess is the word for what the lines would look like is:
Penner/Kopi/Williams
Gagne/Richards/Richardson
Parse/Stoll/Brown
Clifford/Lewis/Hunter
You can flip Parse for Hunter or whatever. Really I actually think putting Lokti on that third line would be better. Have Stoll take faceoffs and Lokti be the center during play making plays.
As to having Richardson with Richards, Quisp said:
Richards and Richardson? If, having gone to great lengths to acquire a superstar center, the best we can do for his winger is Brad Richardson, there’s something wrong.
I disagree here. Richardson showed in the first couple games that he has some chemistry with Richards. I think it is because both guys play all out all the time and are tenacious but responsible checkers. If he fits on that line with them then so be it, I don’t think we should really get into well Richardson isn’t that great. If he plays great when with Richards then screw it, let him be there. Gagne will fit in as another responsible forward to matchup against the other team’s best line and still be able to score and put points up.
As for defense, I think I’d like to flip Mitchell and Scuderi. Drew had success with Scuderi two years ago and I think Mitchell could help JJ’s game as well.
I agree on the defensive match ups. I’ve always liked Scuds with DD better, And Mitchell is a good mentor for JJ because JJ plays a more physical game, and Mitchell can tutor him with his positional recovery better.
I would still give the shutdown edge to Mitchell, though. Which is why they want him against the top opposition.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
As for defensive pairings
Mitchell/Doughty
Scuderi/Voynov
Martinez/Greene
Skaters with not so good skaters, eh? Where’s JMFJ you say? Um, flipped…traded…shipped off…
Come at me, bro.
Follow @shadowking011
Couldn't Spend Time on this at Work...
Dustin Penner = Nerd Penis Nut
Ethan Moreau = Manatee Hour
Kyle Clifford = Ref Dick Folly
Matt Greene = Team Regent
Mike Richards = Him Cask Rider (uh oh)
Rob Scuderi = Cod Bruiser
Scott Parse = Spectators
Maybe this isn’t what people want to think about, but…
Gagne has the skill to score 20 goals in a season..
Kopitar has the skilll to score 20 goals.
Williams has the skill to score 20 goals.
Penner has the skill to score 20 goals.
Richards has the skill to score 20 goals.
Brown has the skill to score 20 goals.
Stoll has the skill to score 20 goals.
Why don’t we just sit back and let chemistry develop, with the occasional line switching?
The talk of putting dustin brown on the 3rd line strikes me as misguided. Brown isn’t just a checker; he has scoring ability and plays a defensive game too. Sounds like a good fit for rw2, he just needs to mesh with rick. It’ll happen.
by lnickerson88 on Oct 15, 2011 6:34 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
that's one way to do it
but the thing is, I don’t know how good brown’s defensive game is, really. i’m not saying he’s bad defensively, but he seems to go off the reservation a lot. brown’s scoring ability is not in question; the question (or one of the questions) is his ability to mesh with linemates. he hasn’t quite done that with any one center. and last year he was getting easier minutes than simmonds and williams through most of the year.
you mention that the talk of putting brown on the third line sounds misguided. I agree that it sounds misguided. but when you consider that right now richards’s line in getting the toughest assignments, a role filled by Handzus/Simmonds last year, it’s harder to think of the richards line as the “second” line.
what i think is happening is that murray’s entire system has depended on handzus and to a lesser degree handzus and simmonds anchoring a “stopper” line that can also score 40-50 goals a year. now, without those two players, murray is (I think) less sure about who is playing what role. maybe richards (as he is now) will be shouldering those tough minutes, but if so, who are his wingers? now, if the line can keep control of the puck more (frolov and simmonds were both very very good at puck protection), they might be able to do the job. but brown’s main weakness is that he is a turn-over machine, whether that happens by trying to skate through a sea of opponents, or by shooting wide on a three-on-two, he’s just (to my eye anyway) never been consistent on that topic.
so if it’s not richards, then maybe it’s kopitar. kopitar, like richards, is excellent defensively. but williams is not. so we have a different version of the same problem.
so what about stoll? stoll is pretty good on both sides of the puck, and he’s fast, and he’s great on faceoffs. but because of his speed and his heavy shot, it’s tempting to make him the center of a quick, third-threat line (what I usually call the Millen/Donnelly speed line). If Loktionov were up, I would be advocating moving Stoll to wing (which he has done) and having a line of Stoll/Loktionov/Lewis. The problem is, we don’t have Loktionov, we have Trent Hunter and Ethan Moreau, so we’re left with a Stoll line that is neither here nor there.
and because stoll is sort of halfway between a c2 and a c3, we have a “third” line that is halfway between a second and a third line, but not in a good way, because it’s both not defensively sound enough and not offensively dangerous enough.
putting brown with stoll — where he has played at least half of the last two seasons — would at least make use of that familiarity. and if that line is not getting the tough minutes, murray would be comfortable putting clifford on the line — and clifford/stoll/brown would be a great line. not a stopper unit that can score, but a physically-punishing unit that can score.
that’s a great idea. but then…who plays right wing on the second line? the choices are trevor lewis (my selection), trent hunter, ethan moreau, brad richardson…or bring up marc-andre cliche.
the best solution of course would be OSCAR MOLLER, but YOU IDIOT YOU MOVED TO SWEDEN.
your solution, simply to wait for brown and richards to have chemistry, is what murray will do, is doing, and maybe what he has to do. but the chemistry is by no means guaranteed. especially since i have some but not a lot of confidence that murray will be able to adjust his “stopper” unit mentality, and so richards will get that assignment (as he has so far), which will increase the pressure on brown and richards, which will make it harder for them to find “chemistry,” etc. etc.
All of the wingers we could put with Richards would be new to the shutdown role, and need time to adjust…except Gagne, but that was a while ago, and they haven’t tried it.
Stoll is suffering from the loss of Williams. Kopi is benefiting from it. I don’t know if they can Malhotra him instead and full on cannibalize his offense for defense. Is he up for it? Is Brown?
YOU IDIOT YOU MOVED TO SWEDEN.
I honestly believe he or Holloway could have been in camp and still been passed over in favor of the Hunters and Moreaus of the world.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
All of the wingers we could put with Richards would be new to the shutdown role, and need time to adjust…except Gagne, but that was a while ago, and they haven’t tried it.
I think Richardson would fit in well on a shutdown line with Richards and Gagne while still being a line that could provide offense even though they play all the tough minutes. Richardson isn’t the best player or biggest guy but he plays with a ton of energy and is pretty responsible defensively so I think he would fit well with Richards.
That also frees Stoll and Brown up to be more of a scoring third line and play easier minutes.
Question for Niesy and Quisp
Reading what you guys said here….. it links with a thought I had yesterday when considering the structure of the team. On one hand, no question whatsoever that the talent level is higher this year wrt last year, but how much of this issue (chemistry) is DL responsible for?
It’s great if you have for example a rock group, five really good musicians, but they don’t work well together. I SO agree with Quisp’s comments. Like everyone (everyone?) I like Brownie, but he just simply doesn’t seem to play the sort of game that links up easily with other players.
So, back to the question…. how much of this responsibility rests on DL’s shoulders? It’s not only his job to get the players, but also to make sure they fit together. Because what everyone has said about the 3rd and 4th lines (or lack thereof) comes down in part to what Niesy calls the Hunters and Moreau’s of the world. That’s DL’s moves.
Never realized how much I liked Simmer.
I dunno.
If TM can’t get three functional lines out of this group, just two, he probably deserves to be fired at the end of the season. But he has a while to experiment and figure it out.
On the other hand DL and co shape the roster, and have made signings and decisions on the bottom six.
It’s just annoying to have Lokti in Manchester. It annoyed me then, and it still annoys me now.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
I agree that murray kind of doesn’t know what these lines are supposed to be. But it’s only a few games into the season. If the kings were still struggling in november or december, I would haul up loktionov and shake the lines up. All I’m saying is, right now the kings have a ton of talent and we should let the teammates get used to each other.
by lnickerson88 on Oct 15, 2011 6:10 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Drewiske is the key!
According to Jim Fox’s tweet, Drewiske is being inserted for Martinez. That will fix the offense. 3 years plus and counting for Murray to find an offense.
Terry Murray strikes again. The Kings most consistent defenseman is being replaced by their worst defenseman. Where is Voynov? Muzzin? Bueller?
Interesting … per the MInister of Propaganda, Drewiske is in the lineup tonight and Martinez sits. Showcasing for a possible trade?
That was my first thought. I found nothing wrong with Martinez in the first three games, especially playing on the third defensive pair. Maybe someone asked DL about Drewiske and wants to see him in action.
I put zero stock whatsoever in players ever playing in order to audition them for a trade, at least in regular season games. If playing Drewiske instead of Martinez costs us a win, was it worth it to showcase him for a trade? I don’t think so. Murray makes the calls on who plays and goes with whatever lineup he thinks will help him win the most games and keep his job. I would guess the move is more about getting Martinez some extra rest because of the crazy road trip and this being the last game. Drewiske being bigger probably helps a little against a big Flyers team as well.
“Hey Dean, you know that Drewiske player you always try to include in your trade offers to us? We don’t really know him. Can you have him play tonight while he’s in town?
Thanks,
Flyers Management"
by Passemoilapuck on Oct 15, 2011 11:07 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
We're all gonna die!
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Oct 15, 2011 10:37 AM PDT reply actions
The new uniforms look like Tron collided with some of Vader’s Storm Troopers. Meh.
I’m talking about this because I’ve probably already vented enough about the third line.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
"He’s intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates -- two-dimensional thinking."

Murray’s system seems to work well… for a little while. While other teams seemingly adapt their systems somewhat to the gameplay, I never get the feeling like Murray’s system adapts at all. The formula is the same in every situation: dump-and-chase, cycle-in-the-corner, etc.
The way Murray makes his adjustments are through line mash-ups. “Obviously, it’s not the system that’s wrong, it’s the personnel that can’t get the job done. Just gotta mix up the ingredients in a different order and then everything will be just fine. Just need to find some chemistry.”
Sounds more like alchemy to me…
The Cake Chemistry is a Lie!
by maxwellian_demon on Oct 15, 2011 1:21 PM PDT reply actions


















