Let us flash back to the 2002-2003 season...
CNNSI.com - Slumping Sharks sack Sutter, assistant coaches - Sunday December 01, 2002 10:43 PM
The San Jose Sharks fired coach Darryl Sutter and assistants Lorne Molleken and Rich Preston on Sunday in a dramatic shakeup of the slumping team. Doug Wilson, the Sharks' director of pro development, and scout Cap Raeder will run the team until a new head coach is hired. [...] The Sharks are off to a terrible 8-12-2-2 start, putting them 13th in the Western Conference [...]. Lombardi agonized over the decision before firing Sutter, a friend and a respected coach who had led the Sharks to five consecutive seasons of improved point totals while helping to transform them from a laughingstock into a Stanley Cup contender. "It's not an easy decision to make when you've had a track record with a person for a long period of time," said Lombardi, who hired Sutter in 1997 to give some respectability to the Sharks. "I don't think you can sum it up as any one thing. That's why these decisions are never easy."
[...] San Jose became a consistent winner in Sutter's tenure, but he couldn't do much this season with an underachieving club that's been one of the NHL's most surprising disappointments. [...] San Jose got off to a slow start while goalie Evgeni Nabokov and defenseman Brad Stuart held out, but their returns haven't helped the Sharks' poor play on both ends. The Sharks have struggled to score, and they've allowed more goals than any Western Conference team except Phoenix. "When we brought Darryl in, he did what we asked him to do," team president and owner Greg Jamison said. "Unfortunately, we determined that a change was necessary. There is still a lot of hockey to be played this season."
[...] [E]ven while Sutter helped the Sharks become a contender, some wondered if he was the right type of coach for a young, speedy team with plenty of offensive talent. Sutter stresses a disciplined, two-way brand of hockey that didn't make much use of star goal-scorer Teemu Selanne last season [...].
SI.com - Sharks fire GM Lombardi after first-to-worst season - Tuesday March 18, 2003 11:43 PM
The San Jose Sharks fired general manager Dean Lombardi on Tuesday, capping their disappointing campaign with a complete overhaul for one of the NHL's most stable organizations. Owner Greg Jamison's surprising move came three weeks before the close of the Sharks' first regular season in six years in which they won't improve their points total from the previous season. [...] Nearly four months after Lombardi fired coach Darryl Sutter and began trading players in an effort to spark the Sharks, Jamison dismissed one of the NHL's most respected young executives in a brief morning meeting. "This team has basically underperformed in a very big way this year," Jamison said. [...[
Lombardi had been a part of the Sharks since their founding season, and he transformed them from an NHL laughingstock to a Stanley Cup contender in the seven years since he was promoted to general manager. All the while, he preached patience in a long-term plan that seemed to be going smoothly until this season. [...] Lombardi signed a four-year contract extension last summer.
[...] Lombardi took over the Sharks' hockey operations late in the 1995-96 season. He hired Sutter and acquired almost every player on the Sharks' current roster, slowly turning the Sharks into an exciting, winning team. But as the Sharks struggled this season, Lombardi fired Sutter and traded Marcus Ragnarsson, Jeff Jillson, Niklas Sundstrom, captain Owen Nolan, Bryan Marchment, Dan McGillis and Matt Bradley. [...] Jamison believed the Sharks' above-average payroll was too much to spend for a non-contending team, and he was thought to be the impetus behind both Sutter's firing and the salary-dumping trades Lombardi made in recent weeks. "We didn't get off to a good start, and we continued to play subpar hockey," Jamison said. " [...]
Lombardi, a Massachusetts native, played at the University of New Haven before earning a law degree from Tulane and briefly working as a player agent. He was an assistant GM with the Minnesota North Stars before joining the Sharks. While Lombardi's player evaluation skills and dealmaking abilities were commended, the Sharks seemed to engage in more annual holdouts with their top players than any other team. Lombardi claimed the holdouts resulted from his attempts to stick close to a tight budget. Last fall, goalie Evgeni Nabokov and defenseman Brad Stuart held out through the start of the regular season, which played a large role in the Sharks' slow start. When San Jose won just one of its first five games, Lombardi abruptly capitulated to Nabokov's salary demands -- but without participating in training camp, Nabokov started slowly and never got into top form this season.
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So you’re saying we should hire Darryl Sutter?
For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.
Well, thankfully there is no such expression about those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. Oh wait… shoot. Nevermind.
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The Royal Half: A Kings Blog
A Los Angeles Kings Blog, Now 43 Seasons Without A Stanley Cup
Huh...this looks oddly familiar...
Guy holds out, misses camp, plays like shit…an underperforming team that has above average firepower skill to put up more than 2 goals but the team’s stuck in last place in goals and 5on5 goals. Team’s pissed off, the coach juggles lines like there’s no tomorrow (kinda like throwing darts at a a Wall St Journal and then putting money in those stocks) Huh…kinda makes one wonder what the hell is gonna happen here.
so instead of Marcus Ragnarsson, Jeff Jillson, Niklas Sundstrom, Owen Nolan, Bryan Marchment, Dan McGillis and Matt Bradley getting dealt, this time it will be Greene, Johnson, Martinez, Williams, Brown, Clifford, and Voynov. hm
"And in net, number 39, DAAAAAAN CLOOOOUTIER"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
by TradedForAPick on Dec 11, 2011 10:21 PM PST reply actions
Well this is ominous
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-1212-kings-murray-20111212,0,3653815.story
I look in the mirror, and I don't like what I see. So I bought a new one.
Should be an interesting week
Mighty timely post by Quisp.
by SCSF on Dec 11, 2011 10:52 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
and yet firing him means nothing
If he’s not replaced by a coach who can adapt in the middle of the game, and maximize the roster he is given
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
by Niesy on Dec 11, 2011 10:57 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
aka, no John Stevens as head coach
"And in net, number 39, DAAAAAAN CLOOOOUTIER"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
by TradedForAPick on Dec 11, 2011 11:04 PM PST up reply actions
Exactly. Murray will not be fired until a suitable replacement is located and lined up. Firing Murray for the sake of doing something is just flailing, not constructive action.
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
by DougX on Dec 11, 2011 11:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What’s Cap Raeder up to these days, anyway?
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
I hear Cherry is available
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
by USHA#17 on Dec 12, 2011 7:51 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
oh sweet baby jesus no
"And in net, number 39, DAAAAAAN CLOOOOUTIER"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
by TradedForAPick on Dec 12, 2011 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe, though I suspect he’ll fire Murray and insert John Stevens as an interim coach until a real replacement is found. Dean will have to show his masters that he is “doing something” since his ass is on the line too.
But how about some intelligent speculation about who that sucessor might be. Carlyle?
I know it’s water under the bridge, but when Marc Crawford was sacked the Kings had both Dave Tippett and Bruce Boudreau in their system. Sigh!
Woo-hoo
Looks like my prediction is coming true. Terry Murray ain’t gonna be behind the Kings’ bench Tuesday.
Thank God the Kings front office cares about winning even if Dumbo doesn’t.
Not so fast. The question at this point is, how quickly can you find a bona-fide replacement? That is, an actual coach, and not simply inserting Stevens as the interim. An interim coach, and you’re basically writing off the season. If you make a strong hire with a coach whom you expect to be there for a while, then you’re making a statement that the season is still salvageable.
It won’t be Carlyle, or it shouldn’t be. He made his bones as a defensive coach, and he presided over Ducks teams that were notoriously undisciplined. Mueller is supposed to be the rising star, but he’s been spoken for. As I said last week, Boudreau was intriguing, but that ship has sailed, too — and it’s not like the Ducks have been doing much better under his guidance.
So who’s available that’s a legit coach and a good fit for what needs to be done to turn around this team? You need to answer that question before you actually drop the axe on Murray.
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
by DougX on Dec 11, 2011 11:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
History repeats itself repeats itself repeats itself
I see where Quisp is going with this post. I would isolate two key quotes by way of comparing and contrasting.
First:
“When we brought Darryl in, he did what we asked him to do,” team president and owner Greg Jamison said. “Unfortunately, we determined that a change was necessary. There is still a lot of hockey to be played this season.”Like Sutter, the Kings improved steadily under Murray until this season. Up to now, he did exactly what he was hired to do — he instilled discipline and a defensive mentality in a young team. While his limitations as a coach have become woefully apparent, the Kings still got good use out of him when they needed him for what he can do well. He was a very good coach for that stage of their development. When the axe falls on him — and it sounds like by the end of the week, after a frantic personnel search for a permanent replacement — he will deserve acknowledgment that he accomplished a lot in a fairly short time with this team, and we all owe him props for that. And if you’re not going to give him that much, you deserve a slap in the chops for your insolence and meanness.
Second key quote:
Jamison believed the Sharks’ above-average payroll was too much to spend for a non-contending team, and he was thought to be the impetus behind both Sutter’s firing and the salary-dumping trades Lombardi made in recent weeks.In other words, breaking up the team in San Jose was the owner’s idea, not Lombardi’s. I think AEG will behave differently, even if the Kings don’t turn it around. I think Leiwicke is more patient than Jamison. Money is less of an issue, too. AEG has cash to burn and can afford to let things develop over the long term. Attendance is still high, even though the fan base is discontent. I don’t see that part of the story repeating itself.
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
by DougX on Dec 12, 2011 12:06 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
T
I agree that nothing is to be done until/unless a suitable replacement is identified.
There are two key differences. Jamison had a hockey management background, AEG doesn’t. Also (and I say this half jokingly) AEG doesn’t have a cash burning culture.
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
by USHA#17 on Dec 12, 2011 7:48 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
I should add that I am grateful for what Murray has done for LA Kings hockey.
The Cowboy, Pulford, Triple Crown, Dionne/Nichols/Carson, Gretzky, Deadmarsh/Allison and now Murray. Wonderful periods of LA Hockey.
Then maybe Murray stays and his staff changes.
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
by USHA#17 on Dec 12, 2011 8:01 AM PST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
I think an even more interesting comparison is with the Chicago Blackhawks who, three years ago figured out that they had the right players in place but the wrong coach and replaced Denis Savard with Joel Quenneville three games into the season. They then went on to win the cup the next year.
I think, and I said so at the time, that the time to replace Murray was at the beginning of ‘10/’11 when the Kings were starting to assemble a team of young but experienced players with the talent to advance deep into the playoffs, and not a bunch of green kids with whom TM excelled at getting them, through the use of a conservative, safety first offense, to be able to hold the score down and stay in games with the elite teams in the league.
Now they have the right players and the wrong coach. It’s as if Dean Lombardi has gone out and gotten Lance Armstrong and TM has made him ride a bike with training wheels.
Terry Murray was the right coach at the right time when he was hired, but as m and m said, the team has evolved during his tenure, and it’s time to get someone else. Who? I have no idea. But I do know that if I was the Columbus Blue Jackets, I’d hire Murray the minute the Kings fire him. They need a coach like him. The Kings need a different one.
Candidate(s)
Quisp-
I have to agree with you that the time is now for the change. I am not a fan of people losing jobs and I certainly have not rooted for TM to be shown the door. After Saturday night, I would think ownership and management would have a hard time finding reason to be encoouraged about the team responding to TM any longer.
So, in the event, who is your choice to coach? I would love to read your thoughts.
michel therrien...(?)
just a hunch…
if stevens is also going to be dismissed…
in 1984, i was hospitalized for approaching perfection....
Also things I might try before firing Murray:
-Trade Matt Greene.
-Send down Westgarth(waive)/Clifford in favor of Nolan/Cliche.
-Give Richards the captaincy upon his return.
Free Marc-André Cliche.
Trading Greene would be dumb
For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.
ok well we have 8 defensemen on the roster and it seems like Martinez is one of the odd men now in spite of have the best puck possession numbers of any defenseman on the team. Matt Greene is part of a leadership group that has now consistenetly come under public criticism from both management and the coaching staff. Also we already have 2 hard nosed slow footed dmen who don’t consistently take bad penalties on the roster I don’t really see why we need 3 of them. We also have a young one on the way up in Muzzin.
Free Marc-André Cliche.
oh wait second to last sentence implies that Matt Greene doesn’t take a lot of stupid penalities which is obviously incorrect because he does (and for some reason never gets shit for it from the organization ever and instead we reward him with an A).
Free Marc-André Cliche.
Matt Greene is part of a leadership group that has now consistenetly come under public criticism from both management and the coaching staff.
?
see lombardi’s critique of team leadership in last seasons laki exit interview. Also comments this season about attitude and mental toughness and players needing to take responisibilty are seemingly a pretty direct criticism of the team leadership. Matt Greene wears an A so I assume he is part of the leadership group.
Free Marc-André Cliche.
“Greene and Brown certainly have to look at themselves as much as the young guys”
Free Marc-André Cliche.
-Trade Matt Greene.
-Send down Westgarth(waive)/Clifford in favor of Nolan/Cliche.
-Give Richards the captaincy upon his return.<,blockquote>
1. Wouldn’t trade Greene unless we got someone decent for him or he is part of a package.
2. Westgarth is actually playing pretty decently and Clifford is only 21.
3. Now that’s an interesting thought.
“2. Westgarth is actually playing pretty decently and Clifford is only 21.”
Westgarth is one of the worst players in the NHL. This is not a subjective statement. I can back this up with a host of quantitative evidence but I mean come on do I really have to? Clifford being only 21 is all the more reason to send him to the AHL were he can get some top line big minutes for a little bit, while we get an influx of fresh blood on a team that is stagnant. We can always bring him back whenever. I don’t see why it’d be bad for him to get some time in the AHL.
Free Marc-André Cliche.
Yes, please back it up. He’s got a goal and an assist this season in a 4th line enforcer role. Heck, he’s got as many or more points than three of his teammates in fewer games. And I’m sure there are guys on the Islanders, Blue Jackets, etc. with guys who are worse than Westgarth. He’s certainly not going to remind anyone of Gretzky but to say he’s one of the worst players in the NHL is a bit over the top IMO.
Westgarth
amongst NHL forwards with 10 games played or more
-Corsi Rel 6th worst in nhl
-when he is on the ice our goals against per 60 = 3.41 (by far worst on the team), team average is a little under 2
-he has the second lowest qualcomp in the league meaning he faces pretty much the easiest competition the NHL
-he has the 4 highest qualteam on the Kings meaning he has played with some pretty competent linemates.
-Individual Penalties Taken per 60 Minutes = 7th in the NHL (also has not drawn a single penalty all year)
That’s just a taste there’s more and that is just from this year. That’s not counting some pretty miserable numbers from past seasons.
Free Marc-André Cliche.
Memo to LA teams: Don’t hire bay area rejects
by DodgersKings323 on Dec 12, 2011 11:20 PM PST reply actions












