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Around SBN: The Week In Worst: When Baseball Goes Wrong

Wild 4, Kings 2 -- Post-Game Bullets? Why Bother?

LOS ANGELES, CA - DECEMBER 08:  Cody Almond #27 of the Minnesota Wild reacts to his goal in front of a fallen Jonathan Quick #32 of the Los Angeles Kings for a 4-2 lead during the third period at Staples Center on December 8, 2011 in Los Angeles, California.  The Wild would win the game 4-2.  (Photo by Harry How/Getty Images)

From my season preview:

Jewels from the Crown: 2011-12 Season Preview

It's that time. Game #1 is three days away (at 10am on a Friday, but I'll take it). Now that Drew Doughty has signed, the roster is more or less set. The fanbase -- if the internet contingent is any indicator -- is somewhere between gleeful and giddy. Fans of other teams are reverse-trolling us with compliments about "how great [we're] going to be this year." Talking heads have promoted the Kings to cup contender status. Everywhere I look, I see the phrase "cup run."

This worries me. Because last I checked, this was a team whose achilles' heel was that it buckled under the weight of big expectations. [...]

My feeling was [regarding the various 2010-11 issues] [...] this was a problem of leadership. Captains, core players, veterans, coaches, all of the above? -- that's almost impossible to say from the outside. But it looks like Dean Lombardi also felt like the team could use an infusion, because he brought in Mike Richards, Simon Gagne, Ethan Moreau and Trent Hunter, which is the largest off-season addition of veterans since the glory days of 2007 (Michal Handzus, Ladislav Nagy, Tom Preissing, Brad Stuart, maybe Kyle Calder, too, I forget). Meanwhile, Obiwan Handzus signed with San Jose, Alexei Ponikarovsky went to Carolina, wily veteran Ryan Smyth hightailed it to Edmonton, Oscar Moller (and Bud Holloway) absconded to Sweden, and Wayne Simmonds (and Brayden Schenn) were assigned to the Kings East affiliate. I have no way of knowing what the locker-room effect of swapping out Smyth and Simmonds for Richards, Gagne, Moreau and Hunter will be...but it will certainly be different than it was.

I have nothing but good thoughts and high hopes for these newest Kings, but good chemistry in the locker-room in the midst of change is far from guaranteed.

[...]

The third line is a bunch of question marks. It's not as robust as Poni/Frolov-Handzus-Simmonds, nor is it (so far) skilled enough to be a speedy-deadly offense-only third line a la Millen/Donnelly/whoever. And I wonder if in all the excitement about Mike Richards and Simon Gagne, people aren't forgetting what made the Kings tough to play against the last two years.

[...]

This time last year, I predicted the Kings would finish in roughly the same place as the year before that, somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 points. That happened. My wish for the season was that the Kings would arrive at 100 points having been more consistent than they were the previous season. That didn't happen. The last two years have been defined by runs of extreme hot and cold. If the Kings continue to count on historic hot streaks to save them from catastrophic slumps, they're never going to have the confidence or fortitude to get out of the first round.

Here's Scott Burnside, this morning:

Los Angeles Kings shrinking back from expectations - ESPN

[...] The Kings want to be where evolving teams aspire to be: expecting to be in the playoffs, expecting to be a factor in the spring, expecting to be held to a higher standard. Yet having arrived at this threshold, the Kings seem to have shrunk from those expectations this season.

[...] "Right now you kind of feel it's just kind of stuck," Lombardi told ESPN.com in an interview in his office at the team's practice facility before Thursday's game. "I don't think anybody feels we're taking the step we need to take." On the plus side of the ledger, the Kings have created a culture of defensive responsibility under head coach Terry Murray [...] But as much as that part of the team's identity seems entrenched, the other, the offensive side, has regressed dramatically. [...] With the addition of former Philadelphia captain Mike Richards during the offseason, the Kings looked to match up suitably against the big boys in the conference. They looked like a team that could play it any way the night dictated -- up-tempo run and gun or buttoned-down close-checking. Now they look like a team that is offensively aimless.

The Kings may be able to play "up-tempo run and gun," however, as the old Monty Python joke had it:

"Can do. But. Won't."

They (seem to) play "buttoned-down close-checking" no matter what the situation calls for. They (seem to) protect leads they don't even have.

[...] Perhaps nowhere is the team's failure to evolve offensively more marked than in the play of former Norris Trophy candidate Drew Doughty. A dynamic young player who has excelled at every level, including the NHL, and who was among the best players for Canada at the Olympics in 2010. Now, Doughty is facing perhaps the first real adversity of his career. He held out for a big contract [...] but now he appears to be trying to do too much and in the end does too little. [...] Murray was talking before Thursday's loss about the need for the Kings' defensemen to get more pucks on net and help generate more offense. He didn't mention Doughty by name, but he didn't need to.

"You can't miss training camp," Murray told ESPN.com before Thursday's game. "Not in this game. You can't miss training camp. You can't miss the start of the year. That takes a big bite of everything away from you. "Now you come in with expectations that are an incredible burden, incredible. With that kind of contract, and the only way a lot of people are going to look at him is to be a Norris trophy winner, finish first with the Presidents' Trophy and win the Stanley Cup. "

To me, the fact that Murray is saying this now is fascinating. Yes, we all know Doughty is holding his stick too tight right now, along with just about everyone else, but what's the motivation for airing this out in public? That's kind of a rhetorical question. I pointed out last post that if Doughty were on a pace for 20 goals, he'd have 5 or 6 more goals than he has now. Not enough to make a difference in the over-all team offensive crappiness.

"We've still got one of the youngest cores in the National Hockey League, so the expectations have grown very quickly here in a couple of years, and that's OK," Murray said. "That's a good thing. That's needed as an organization to push everybody to get to places where they never thought they could be before and that's where we want to be. We want to keep those expectations coming." All of which imbues the Kings' struggles with even more urgency than might otherwise be the case. [...] But the disappointing offensive showings have amped up calls among Kings' fans to make some sort of move, make a trade, fire the coach. No different than in other any market. [...] "There's a mental growth that has to take place," Lombardi said of his team. There may be a cap on talent, "but there's no cap on mental toughness" [...].

We went through this last year, twice. Two long slumps, which required a record-setting hot streak to correct. I'm sure Terry Murray is making all sorts of changes to his game-plan, but from the outside looking in, through both slumps it looked like the strategy was to hold firm, to keep doing the things they "know" work ("shot mentality", "compete", "battle for pucks", "blue paint", "traffic", "speed on entry", "crash the net", "keep it simple"). This model is called "the system works if you actually execute it, so just do it". Close on the heels of this is, "I need more."

The players have to do what they're told. They are, after all, "character" guys who "want the right thing." The locker room is "tight." They "care about each other." When those ideals are trumpeted so often, does anyone expect the players to take a left turn when told to go right? There is no locker room leader -- or bigger-than-life personality -- on a par with (for example) Alex Ovechkin, or Chris Pronger, or Scott Neidermayer, or Scott Stevens. The Kings are, on the whole, a bunch of diligent students who want to please the teacher.

The coach has the option of continuing with the plan (which from experience he knows will not work for stretches during any given season), tweaking the plan using a method akin to reordering your letters in Scrabble in hopes of stumbling on a 50 point word, or ditching the plan entirely. I believe Terry Murray is heavily invested in his plan. It will work if only you execute it.

Lombardi has the option of addressing the troops (a coupon that can be played maybe once every couple of years), giving entertaining but inscrutable interviews (he is in a way the Alan Greenspan of hockey GMs), talking to the coaches (oh, how I would love to be a fly on the wall of those meetings), or making personnel moves. The only actual option he has is to let his personnel do what they were hired to do (I mean players and coaches), or to change personnel. In the past, he's been able to play the "we're ahead of schedule" card, but the trading for Richards, signing of Doughty and spending to the cap ceiling effectively put an end to that. I don't think I've heard him say we're ahead of schedule for months now. Which means, somewhere in the schedule, there is a line in the sand, beyond which Lombardi is going to be forced to make personnel changes or risk taking the fall himself.

This morning I was enjoying the fantasy of Lombardi firing the entire staff and hiring Randy Carlysle. There's something delicious about watching the Ducks have to continue to pay Carlysle to beat them over and over from the other bench. But Lombardi is stubborn in a mostly admirable way, and in this case I can imagine him hanging on to Terry Murray to Lombardi's own detriment.

And if there's a trade? I would say Anze Kopitar, Richards, Gagne, Doughty, Jonathan Quick and Rob Scuderi are safe. Dustins Brown and Penner are not, for different reasons. These are two players I really like. But Penner is expendable and Brown is "the" leader on a team that has leadership issues. So how safe can he be? I also wouldn't be surprised to see Jarret Stoll moved. As for Jack Johnson, I am pretty sure Lombardi will hang onto him, because his upside is so big (and I think he likes JJ's fire; I suspect Lombardi likes a guy who pushes back), but of all the Kings not named Kopitar, Richards or Doughty, it's JJ who is the easiest to imagine other GMs taking as the big piece in a Big Trade. If I had to bet, I would say Johnson will stay, and I hope he does. But I bet there are going to be some interesting phone calls for a few weeks here.

Me, I'd rather just get a new coach who can make better use of the tools we have.

****

As for post-game bullets, here they are:

Comment 67 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Re-post on Moreau

Put this up a few minutes ago at the end of the game thread. Per LAKI, Moreau has been put on waivers.
http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/12/09/friday-practice-no-moreau/

Also, might want to get in touch with the statistician. Last night they had Martinez losing that draw :(

by SCSF on Dec 9, 2011 1:22 PM PST reply actions  

-A Loktionov PP TOI = 0:23

Free Marc-André Cliche.

by Robert_P. on Dec 9, 2011 1:34 PM PST reply actions  

The mental toughness card is the card people usually play when they are about to get fired. See Bruce Boudreau.

Free Marc-André Cliche.

by Robert_P. on Dec 9, 2011 1:39 PM PST reply actions  

and this...
But Lombardi is stubborn in a mostly admirable way, and in this case I can imagine him hanging on to Terry Murray to Lombardi’s own detriment.

… is what worries me.

When the kick out your front door how you gonna come? With your hands above your head or on the trigger of your gun?

by Jack-Handy on Dec 9, 2011 1:50 PM PST reply actions  

Q Said: "Me, I'd rather just get a new coach who can make better use of the tools we have."

Need anyone say anything more?

TM’s clock says two minutes to midnight…

by BakoCA on Dec 9, 2011 1:55 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Brown is “the” leader on a team that has leadership issues. So how safe can he be?

I think leadership is an issue. There doesn’t seem to be enough fire by Brown, Kopitar, and Greene. They don’t have to be rah rah guys but I can’t picture them getting fired up to their teammates if they are playing like crap. Greene and Brown have made their share of on-ice mistakes, yet they never get sent into TM’s doghouse like Lewis or Richardson for example. I just don’t see the accountability by the captains and doubt TM would ever have the balls to bench them if it was warranted. Especially with the offense running on fumes, I dare TM to sit Greene and leave guys like Martinez and Voynov in the line-up.

by sstephen17 on Dec 9, 2011 1:59 PM PST reply actions  

There doesn’t seem to be enough fire by Brown, Kopitar, and Greene.

Greene and Brown, sure. But Kopitar? He got massively shaken up, if not hurt, by a big hit near the boards but still came out to play on the ensuing power play. That takes heart and shows great leadership.

Kopitar is also the only player other than Richards who has the ability to single-handedly make great offensive plays. I’ll grant you that he hasn’t finished lately, but last night he still made some great plays in the 3rd and was the only player on the team worth watching.

by Garrett79 on Dec 9, 2011 3:45 PM PST up reply actions  

If Frolov was to mispronounce, Murray would bench his ass ten games. I still miss the Fro. Less so, Ponikarovsky.

"And in net, number 39, DAAAAAAN CLOOOOUTIER"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

by TradedForAPick on Dec 9, 2011 3:51 PM PST up reply actions  

I have absolutely no issue with Kopitar leading by example with his play. I’m speaking more to vocal leadership; I know he’s soft spoken but I think whatever he says would carry a lot of weight because of his talent and his effort to come back from last year’s injury seemingly unscathed.

What I hate most about TM’s coaching is exactly what you said about benching players. He’ll call out Loktionov, saying he needs more from him. But I’ve never heard him say he needs more from Brown or Greene. Kopitar can’t give you anymore than he’s already giving, lol.

by sstephen17 on Dec 9, 2011 4:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Lokti’s biggest issue is he still isn’t ready. Well, for TM’s system at least. Brown is apparently immune from ridicule, though I would have to say it is because he wears the C. If a coach is calling out your captain, that doesn’t bode well in any case, largely because: A. Your captain was named by you, the coach. Or B. Named by the players on the team, which of course would just piss off everyone. Or it’s C. The GM made the call and you may very well kiss your ass goodbye.

Look at Boudreau and Ovechkin.

"And in net, number 39, DAAAAAAN CLOOOOUTIER"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

by TradedForAPick on Dec 9, 2011 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

I like Loktionov…a lot…however, he still needs to beef up a bit.

Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?

by USHA#17 on Dec 9, 2011 5:49 PM PST up reply actions  

This times a million. There was a picture of him taken during preseason/training camp, and he looked like a skinny, gangly high schooler.

I know it’s hard to add strength and muscle during a hockey season, but not when you are pathetically weak. It is trivially easy to get a lot stronger and bigger very, very fast, when you have novice level strength.

by BobKnob on Dec 11, 2011 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

There’s something delicious about watching the Ducks have to continue to pay Carlysle to beat them over and over from the other bench.

I said this on a past thread and it makes so much freaking sense it’s not even funny!

I think he would be perfect in every way and there would even be added juice to the so-so rivalry. The thought of him coaching the Kings to wins against the Ducks while still being paid by Samueli makes me dizzy with glee.

by JZarris on Dec 9, 2011 2:16 PM PST reply actions  

Does he get paid by two teams? Or is there a clause in the Ducks contract that says they stop paying him when he finds another NHL head coaching job?

by BobKnob on Dec 11, 2011 2:17 PM PST up reply actions  

Doughty was fine after missing training camp. Go back and watch those games before the injury. Terry Murray sucks and so does Burnside for following his lead.

On a side note, that guy is so weird, I don’t know how he has a job. When the Kings were on a losing streak earlier in the season he blamed the team’s woes on Jonathan Quick. LeBrun replied that he must be hitting the bottle early.

We went through this last year, twice. Two long slumps, which required a record-setting hot streak to correct.

We notice these things, but try getting reporters to entertain the idea that Terry Murray might not be the best coach where goal scoring is concerned, or that the Kings could benefit from a new approach. There’s all sorts of automatic push-back. I think he’s entrenched, though I hope he’s not.

I don’t want some stupid trade instead.

Dinglebarnin' It JftC

by Niesy on Dec 9, 2011 2:20 PM PST reply actions  

Agree. A trade isn't necessary unless

it’s to provide a roster for Slava to play.

Last night at the game, so many fans were booing the players. I don’t blame them for being frustrated, it was an awful game with an even worse beginning. (goal, penalty, etc.); but, I didn’t hear a single disparaging comment about Murray.

I think most fans haven’t figured it out yet either.

The Kings have waaaaay too much talent to play such boring and uninspired hockey.

by Doughty99 on Dec 9, 2011 2:29 PM PST via mobile up reply actions  

Bench Greene

Send a message to the core/leadership that no one is immune to a benching. Then go:

Doughty/Scuderi
Johnson/Voynov
Mitchell/Martinez

by sstephen17 on Dec 9, 2011 2:40 PM PST up reply actions  

I think the coaching resentment is there, at least judging by the Insider, Twitter, etc. There’s just so much negative energy right now, it’s everywhere. I think the players are hating life. Only Penner is awash with relief that he’s 100% healthy and feeling confident about himself.

Something needs to change. It’s odd that no one running the team apparently has concrete solutions. It’s hard to regain confidence if you feel like you just run back into a brick wall. What’s next? Try harder as you run into the wall?

Dinglebarnin' It JftC

by Niesy on Dec 9, 2011 2:50 PM PST up reply actions  

I’d just be happy if Lewis and Richie played every game.

"And in net, number 39, DAAAAAAN CLOOOOUTIER"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

by TradedForAPick on Dec 9, 2011 3:16 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

Something needs to change. It’s odd that no one running the team apparently has concrete solutions.

Most, if not all of the benchings have been to 4th line/3rd defense pair players (Richardson, Lewis, etc.). So any “change” that has been made so far is either minor or out of necessity due to injury.

I’ve mentioned benching Greene but I think I would like to see Quick get a “rest” after his sub-par game on Thursday.

by sstephen17 on Dec 9, 2011 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

What’s next? Try harder as you run into the wall?

If Terry Murray is your coach, yes. Just show some more compete and throw a few more pucks from the blue line before you run this time, and that wall doesn’t stand a chance.

by Doughty99 on Dec 10, 2011 12:33 AM PST up reply actions  

Entrenched to the point of a dismal finish? Well, I keep thinking that if that were to happen, at least we’d be in position to maybe draft some more ‘finishing’ up front. Of course DL could opt as well to get a guy with the more and more mentioned ‘intangibles’ who is ‘difficult to play against.’

Agree w you guys that a trade would not do the business. I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again.
There is a crack in the structure. A trade would paper that over, for six games, maybe even a month and a half. But until the issue in the foundation is dealt with, they aren’t gonna get out of this entirely. And as for the ‘foundational aspect’ I can’t say exactly what that is. But I defer to Quisp to a point. Perhaps leadership, most certainly coaching, and certainly other things as well.

by number 6 on Dec 9, 2011 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

And if there’s a trade? I would say Anze Kopitar, Richards, Gagne, Doughty, Jonathan Quick and Rob Scuderi are safe.

I don’t think Quick is safe at all. In fact I would say he is the most valuable trade asset the Kings have because as you point out, Kopitar, Doughty, and Richards aren’t going anywhere. And here is why:

•Organizational goaltending depth. Jonathan Bernier can step in and be the number one guy at any time. Lombardi knows this. And there are plenty of potential back-up goalies in Jones, Zatkoff, and Berube.
•Johnson’s upside is still too great. He is the only other young player I can see other teams wanting with whom the Kings might consider parting. But I don’t think the Kings actually would. He and Doughty are going to be their Lidstrom-Rafalski pairing for a very long time.
•They can’t afford him beyond next year anyway. His asking price will be over 5 million when he is a free agent, and based on his numbers probably closer to 7. They can’t keep him and Bernier so they are going to have to make the painful decision at some point to move one of them. I’d say it’s Quick, because like Johnson, Bernier still has the bigger upside. To be honest, they may not be able to keep either of them, but that’s why Jones is in the system, right?

by Garrett79 on Dec 9, 2011 3:53 PM PST reply actions  

Interesting take on Quick

But is there a contending team that needs a #1 goalie? Or would he go to a team like Columbus that needs goaltending and isn’t likely to make the playoffs, much less contend?

by sstephen17 on Dec 9, 2011 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Quick, Lokti, and A-mart for Nash

"And in net, number 39, DAAAAAAN CLOOOOUTIER"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

by TradedForAPick on Dec 9, 2011 4:24 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

not that I would do it (without thinking it over for longer than I did hear, ie, 6 seconds) but just throwing it out there

"And in net, number 39, DAAAAAAN CLOOOOUTIER"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

by TradedForAPick on Dec 9, 2011 4:25 PM PST up reply actions  

I’m thinking more like a team like New Jersey which clearly needs a new goalie. Brodeur is done after this season. They have already dropped out of contending status. Is there much incentive for a guy like Parise to re-sign there? I don’t think so.

How about Quick and Brown to the Devils for Parise?

by Garrett79 on Dec 9, 2011 8:31 PM PST up reply actions  

I’d think they would want JJ also. Or instead of Brown. New Jersey really likes their defense, which is so damn weird why they did the whole Kovalchuk fiasco and now have close to no real defense

"And in net, number 39, DAAAAAAN CLOOOOUTIER"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

by TradedForAPick on Dec 10, 2011 8:59 AM PST up reply actions  

A change in team philosophy?

Perhaps, unlike Terry Murray, they realize the league has changed?

by Garrett79 on Dec 10, 2011 10:41 AM PST up reply actions  

oh god, I have Terry Murray syndrome

"And in net, number 39, DAAAAAAN CLOOOOUTIER"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

by TradedForAPick on Dec 10, 2011 4:56 PM PST up reply actions  

I still think the Kings have another year….

PS Millen and Donnelly was my all time favorite 3rd line for LA. I loved Donnelly’s puck handling along the boards in the finals against Montreal

Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?

by USHA#17 on Dec 9, 2011 4:08 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

another year? can you explain that…. not certain I understand,

by number 6 on Dec 9, 2011 4:26 PM PST up reply actions  

IMO LA was set back, losing an off season of building to a combination of the Kovalchuk fiasco and a lack of wings on the market at that time.

In addition to Penner, Gagne and Richards both another right and left wing is needed. Clearly neither Moreau nor Hunter fit the bill (through Hunter may yet come around).

So what I am thinking is…that next season the Kings will have to try again…perhaps offloading Penner at the deadline for a decent wing, pull another wing out of the system and acquiring a decent top 6 left wing.

Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?

by USHA#17 on Dec 9, 2011 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Corey Millen.

That man could fly around the rink!

"We will come with our guns blazing, and we just blazed." - Tim Leiweke

by DodgerBlueBalls on Dec 9, 2011 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Ja mon.

Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?

by USHA#17 on Dec 9, 2011 5:44 PM PST up reply actions  

And surprisingly tough to knock off the puck.

by JZarris on Dec 9, 2011 8:01 PM PST up reply actions  

It's not working...

… and a locker room full of guys who were hand picked for their team-first attitude are not going to invent their way out of it, much less stage a player revolt that would force the hand of management.

But what’s really disappointing as a fan is that TM and DL seem to be married to this boring regimented style of hockey.

In DL’s seven seasons with the Sharks he drafted well, brought in great veterans and had a stacked team that was supposed to make a deep run in ‘02-03. But they floundered, which ultimately led to him and coach Darryl Sutter being dismissed. That season started with a holdout by Evgeni Nabokov (he signed a few games into the season) and the holdout was perceived to have contributed to the team’s problems.

So it’s interesting to hear TM saying that “you can’t miss training camp.” Maybe he overheard DL reminiscing.

by responsible D on Dec 9, 2011 5:11 PM PST reply actions  

It starts at the top...

If DL is anything like Greenspan in anyway that counts, we’re in for a hurtin’ more than we’ve ever been as Kings fans.

The ‘plan’ has hit a very large snag and DL, the one at the top, is playing it cool. This is not wise. He might just be a little too close to see the forest for the trees right now. Maybe those San Jose redwoods are still haunting him in his sleep.

I suspected that his (mostly) absent presence in the media lately was attributed to his keeping a very close on on things and when the time was right, he’d come out with a bombshell.

Wrong.

He came out with an even more Deano-like interview than Deano himself usually gives. It felt ironclad in his conviction to stick to his guns (or lack thereof).

Speaking of guns, looking back at ‘the benching’ it seems like one of the stupidest ‘shoot yourself in the foot’ moves I’ve ever seen a coach do. What a jackass move that was sit Quick and effectively crap on your teams’ mojo.

That decision, coupled with what’s transpiring now, along with DL’s apparent persistent pledge to see this car fly off the cliff Thelma and Louise style, makes me think either he needs a coach himself or the fix is in and this is just a sham of a rebuild.

I doubt the latter, but it is also possible there’s just no better coaching alternative right now.

I’m for Carlyle at this point also. Why not, right?

by wavesinair on Dec 9, 2011 5:40 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

My interpretation (or maybe it's just wishful thinking) is that Lombardi's interview was strident in its desire to say nothing.

Everyone’s to blame, so he singles out no-one. I say “wishful thinking” because I choose to believe he is saying nothing because he is about to do something. I don’t think Lombardi has a blood-oath going with Murray, though who knows maybe they made promises to each other when they were both stewing in Philadelphia, waiting to get their hands on a team again. But I doubt it. I would be willing to bet that if the Kings don’t turn it around quickly and embark on a .750-ish winning streak, Murray will get the axe. My fear is that he will then just put Stevens in charge.

Carlysle is not a pipedream though.

by Quisp on Dec 9, 2011 6:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Lack of fight?

2009-2010 season: Fighting majors: Kings — 11th
2010-2011 season: Fighting majors: Kings — 25th

by maxwellian_demon on Dec 9, 2011 6:49 PM PST reply actions  

Interesting. 2009-2010 over a full season though, right? Simmer’s gone, Clifford is fighting less and Westy seems to be as well.

by JZarris on Dec 9, 2011 8:03 PM PST up reply actions  

RELEASE THE KRAKEN, er, THE WESTIE

"And in net, number 39, DAAAAAAN CLOOOOUTIER"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

by TradedForAPick on Dec 10, 2011 9:00 AM PST up reply actions  

I’d rather Johnson stay than Doughty. I can’t deal with him anymore.

I’m tired of Terry Murray trying to put a positive spin on everything. Sometimes you just gotta say, “we suck. I don’t have anything positive to say about how we are playing, especially last night.” Because that was the WORST hockey i’ve ever seen in person. Actually, probably not in person too.

by Olympichero03 on Dec 9, 2011 7:23 PM PST reply actions  

Quit being a drama queen.

The West Coast is the Best Coast.

by RudyKelly on Dec 9, 2011 8:25 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

I always thought that game was closer than the scoreboard showed.

by JZarris on Dec 9, 2011 8:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Truly the worst game ever

For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.

by Nut on Dec 10, 2011 6:42 AM PST up reply actions  

Holy hell, way to reawaken my PTS

"And in net, number 39, DAAAAAAN CLOOOOUTIER"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

by TradedForAPick on Dec 10, 2011 9:02 AM PST up reply actions  

You haven't seen much hockey then

Should have gone to a couple of the stinkers the Kings had last season…

by Dutch71 on Dec 10, 2011 8:31 AM PST up reply actions  

(and curse be upon the browser for disallowing the embedding of YouTube videos…)

by maxwellian_demon on Dec 9, 2011 7:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks Quisp. That made my morning. Love Monty Python.

by number 6 on Dec 10, 2011 7:19 AM PST up reply actions  

Where is Rudy’s insulting retort? C’mon, man!!!

I love Python too.

It is that thing that I sent to you.

by whine_country on Dec 10, 2011 8:39 AM PST up reply actions  

shout...shout...let it all out...(!)

primal scream > team repression…

if management is pining for that 1970’s nhl mental toughness in today’s kings locker room, why not utilize one of that decade’s most popular psychological healing techniques…?

seriously…
would it really be such a bad thing at this point if someone…anyone…associated with the kings were to pull a howard beale…?

i think not…

spot-on analysis, QUISP…spot-on…(!)

in 1984, i was hospitalized for approaching perfection....

by (variable) on Dec 9, 2011 7:45 PM PST reply actions  

Terry Murray is still coach for #basketballreasons

I look in the mirror, and I don't like what I see. So I bought a new one.

by Paul Udani on Dec 9, 2011 10:34 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

Trade Brown?

I don’t understand the trade Brown sentiment at all.
Richards GP_478 G_144 A_225 P_369 (5.75 million cap hit)
$16,016 per point
Kopitar GP_421 G_148 A_237 P_385 (6.8 million cap hit)
$17,662 per point
Brown GP_541 G_146 A_174 P_320 (3.1 million cap hit)
$9,687 per point
Seriously, trade Brown?
BTW …
Zach Parise GP_447 G_171 A_189 P_360 (6 million salary/currently one year deal)
$16,666 per point
I’m all for going after Parise and if we had to trade away a goal tender to get him … I’d be ok with that … but no way in hell I’d do that trade for a guy who signed a 1 year deal last year and who will be available next year for $$$.
Hell we could get Iginla for a group of kids and his cap hit is $7 million and his point/$$$ is only $6,829 per point. Sure it’s not really apples to apples like the guys above (because of his age/games played is greater than the players above) but big picture it before ya start talking about" trade this guy, trade that guy." I’ve been a Kings fan for over 30 years now … everytime I hear trade talks I can’t help but think about Larry Robinson, Kevin Stevens and a half dozen other dumb as panic moves we made that never amounted to shit, while watching the assests we lost play on championship teams, year in, year out.
My call is trade no one … let the guys work it out … as much as I rant I want TM fired after every game, the right thing to do is probably let him go if we don’t go further than the 1st/2nd round.
Brown is a leader both on and off the ice.
Brown has the productivity numbers of the biggest names at almost half the cost.
No matter if TM gets fired or not, the trade Brown thing just makes no sense IMO.

by kevin_ebel on Dec 9, 2011 10:52 PM PST reply actions  

Obviously, it would have to be a sign-and-trade scenario wherein the Kings get to talk to Parise or the Devils sign him knowing there is a deal in place. You’re not gonna give up assets like Quick and Brown for a rental.

Especially when there might not be any reason to rent someone.

by Garrett79 on Dec 9, 2011 11:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Agree

I concur
That’s my point.
LA has something like 12/13 UFA/RFA’s next season …
Parise signed a 1 year deal last year …
Maybe its just my wishful thinking but I want to believe he didn’t sign for longer because he wanted to move yet was RFA and he didn’t want to sit and Lou asked him to just extend and let the Kovalchuk thing settle and mesh before he made the decision to leave. (Again, all in my head)

by kevin_ebel on Dec 10, 2011 8:38 AM PST up reply actions  

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

I’m not really sure if your numbers work, or explain all that much.

1) You are calculating career totals at each players current cap hit, so the points per game is not accurate (and Richie’s number is off anyway…by $434.00). You’d have to total up all the $$$ they had made in their careers to get an accurate PPG and that still doesn’t take into account differences in games played, age, linemates, shooting percentage, yadda-yadda-yadda.

2) It would be better to calculate this season only by a per game basis and then project over a full 82 game season…if my numbers are right (not a sure thing by any stretch). And this leaves out all other variable like injury, return from injury, yadda…
-Richards’ 25GP w/ 20 pts= 0.8 ppg X 82GP = 66pts @ 5.75 cap hit = $87,121 per pt.
-Kopitar’s 28GP w/ 27 pts= 0.96 ppg X 82GP = 79pts @ 6.8 cap hit = $86, 075 per pt.
-Brown’s 28 GP w/ 15 pts= 0.54 ppg X 82GP = 44 pts @ 3.1 cap hit = $70,454 per pt.
-Parise’s 27GP w/ 19 pts= 0.7ppg X 82GP = 57pts@ 6.0 cap hit = $105,263 per pt.

Anyway, for what it’s worth (and there’s likely a mistake in there).

by JZarris on Dec 10, 2011 12:12 AM PST up reply actions  

Never Ever Ever

More data is always better. Look to the “Netflix Challange” story out of Stanford University.
Regardless, even if you shrink the data sample to this year as you chose to do, it still supports what my point was … Brown is far and away the best goal scorer for the money.

by kevin_ebel on Dec 10, 2011 8:56 AM PST up reply actions  

+1 On the Recap

Martinez won a draw and Penner scored. Trent Hunter scored a good garbage goal and once again Penner looked like the best King out there..Which is definitely good and bad.
Notice from TM’s comments, he sounds like a guy well aware that if the ship isn’t righted soon they’ll be throwing the Captain overboard soon…That could mean Murray AND Brown by the way.
That the Kings went 3-17-0 last season over their two losing streaks and STILL made the playoffs is hardly short of a miracle, don’t expect the same this one and don’t wait around to shake the team up! This complete offensive anaemia is painful to watch.
Richards being out certainly affects the O, but come on, what happened to all the other guys!?

by Dutch71 on Dec 10, 2011 8:35 AM PST reply actions  

Gotta say

Penner looks awesome. Funny what happens when healthy AND in shape AND not listening to TM

"And in net, number 39, DAAAAAAN CLOOOOUTIER"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

by TradedForAPick on Dec 10, 2011 9:04 AM PST up reply actions  

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