Like I said...
by Quisp on Feb 11, 2011 1:36 PM PST
in Trade Deadline
Email
Print
I told you that's what he meant.
Helene Elliott (helenenothelen) on Twitter
Kings GM Dean Lombardi on what he wants in trade market: "what we really need is, I think, some of our payers to step up a little bit at [continued on next tweet] Crunch time. That's still most important." On kopitar's struggles: "that's part of the process of maturation and learning how to win."
I also hear a little bit of an implied warning in that. People mostly look to the prospects as potential trade bait. I would not be at all surprised to see a core player who is "not stepping up at crunch time" be the one to get moved. (No, not Kopitar. Come on.)
[UPDATE: I assume Lombardi meant
"players" not "payers."]
50 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Agreed
I’ve been thinking that perhaps Simmonds could go if Lombardi moves one of the young core. Lots of teams like him, he’s been underachieving this season, and is do a big raise. Plus with Clifford adding some grit to lineup, perhaps he’s expendable.
Not at all arguing in favor of that, but if Quisp is right that a core member could go, I’d bet it’s Simmonds.
Agreed .... Sorta
Hoolie has a good point re Simmy but I gotta say … I’m getting less and less inclined to call Kopitar “Untouchable” these days.
He has yet to have a superstar on his wing but … the kid’s gotta step up the numbers A BIT …
Before you guys jump all over me I agree he’s an integral part of the building process but his disappearances are getting …. dare I say it … “Frolovesque”
SCRATCH THAT
I’m changing my mind … Murray needs to keep Justy and Smitty on Kopi’s wings … build the rest and re-cement the top line.
So, now Zeus is on the 1st-line, playing 1st line minutes. Where’s the logic. His game only started improving of late when his minutes were reduced.
So, perhaps Kopi has been demoted to 3rd line status.
What we need is the energized, heavy-bodied, puck possession Zeus, not the tired overworked version that sucks – especially against Philli on Sunday.
I don’t see these new lines working, or sticking, through the weekend.
We’ll see.
Justin Williams has been one of the NHL’s better 5 on 5 players this year. +/-ON/60 of 1.41 for 16th amongst all NHL forwards (who have played in at least 30 games) ahead of Datsyuk, Backstrom and Toews.
I'm not advocating one thing over another
but there’s a bit of a logjam at RW, and if I were in charge (which I’m not, and I’m also slightly less patient than Lombardi) I would deal Brown before Simmonds. An example of that would be (if Calgary craps out in the next ten days) Brown for Iginla. Then there’s the Stoll situation. Does Lombardi let him walk summer of 2012? Trade him this time next year? Trade him now? On one hand, he’s playing well (Brown is not). On the other hand, Kopitar/Loktionov/Schenn/Lewis; that’s doable next season. Maaaaaaaybe it’s a year too soon; don’t know. Personally, I think there’s no way they trade Williams, Smyth, Kopitar. I would consider trading Brown and Stoll for a big piece and maybe a yummy prospect. But I’m talking about a BIG piece. That’s how I feel today anyway. I might change my mind in five minutes.
Wait till this year.
I can see your point about Brown
but to me however it appears the pressure of first line expectations forced upon this excellent second or third line winger has shaken him. Shift him down for some confidence building. What difference can it make given the current rate of line 1 production?
That Smyth seems to be slowing significantly in open ice and board situations is yet another conundrum for this team. I don’t really know if one piece would be enough right now.
The key piece(s) are not in the market and I don’t see much coming down the (FA) pike. I tend to lean in the direction of next year with most building coming from the within.
A thought on Lewis. It would be nice to see Lewis break out but that requires players to work with…Brown for example.
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
I still think that to get Iginla would take Brown and two of the following: Schenn, Hickey, Voinov, and one of the goalies (Quick, Bernier, or Jones). The Flames don’t have to get rid of Iginla yet because he still has a year on his contract, and they are looking more like a legit playoff contender every day anyway.
Remember Smyth for quincey and Priessing.
the kings won’t be giving up any of those guys.
Wait till this year.
Wow
Gotta say this all sounds incredibly reactionary. Think of last year, and what all of the players mentioned, and how they did. Really Brown for Iginla??? Really? Doughty isn’t in the Norris consideration this year so by that logic let’s send him off for Lidstrom. Just cool it for a bit. We are ok. Dean won’t put this team in a bad spot. He has shown it before and he will show it again. I think if we make a move it will be subtle.
I'm not having a reaction to anything. The kings are 6-0-2 in their last 8. I have been fairly consistent in pointing out the right wiing logjam, going back at least a year
I think Brown is very good and very valuable and not a great fit with Kopitar as has been demonstrated fairly painfully over the last three seasons. Brown’s numbers are not bad in general by any stretch of the imagination, but when a first line goes one third of two consecutive seasons without scoring any goals, it’s reasonable to consider what one is supposed to do about it.
There is something that doesn’t “work” about the Kings top-six. What I said above was that I would consider moving Brown and Stoll for a BIG piece and a prospect. As far as Iginla goes, the reasoning is not that Iginla will be better than Brown over the next five years; he won’t. But he’ll be better than Brown over the next two years, and in three years I hope that a few olf Toffoli, Kitsyn, Moller, Loktionov and Schenn will be in the top six. And of course Kopitar will be there. Maybe Brown is a great fit in the top six at that point, maybe he’s not. I am sure he’ll still be a very very good player three years from now. But — and I freely admit I may be fatally short-sighted — I find it hard to imagine that he’ll blossom into a better top six RW than he is now. The things that he does that cause him to be less effective — the odd passes, the ill-advised attempts at skating through an entire team, the predictable infuriating shot choices — just seem like an ingrained part of his character. This wouldn’t bother me at all really in a RW3. But we have one of those. And if we’re going to keep both Simmonds and Brown, one of them is going to have to turn into a REAL top-six player.
Don’t misread what I’m saying. I like Brown. I like Simmonds too. I will be sad if and when he’s not a King. But the Kings have needs that ought to be addressed.
I will also say — arguing against myself — that every time I get in any way down on Brown, Rudy talks some kind of snarky sense and within a few games Brown plays like Phil Esposito and I am very very glad he’s a King.
Wait till this year.
This is all part of your plan to ensure that Oscar Moller is on the team next season. I see through your ploy.
2011-12
Smyth/Kopitar/(Williams)
Moller/Loktionov/Simmonds
Clifford/Schenn/Brown
Parse/Lewis/Cliche(?)
(Nolan)
Mitchell/Doughty
Scuderi/Johnson
Martinez/Greene
(Muzzin)
Wait till this year.
Cliche(?)
I see what you did there. Now you both get your favorites, and mine’s left in the cold. :)
(Williams)
Aaaagh, seriously, won’t he be the best UFA RW out there?
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Clarify, please
Who did I leave out in the cold? Drewiske, Harrold, Westgarth? Oh, STOLL! Yeah, I feel he will be dealt. But I know nothing.
(It’s also entirely possible that Lombardi will marinate Schenn in Manchester for a year and Stoll will stick around…)
And are you pro-Williams-re-signing or con-…?
Wait till this year.
Hickey! But I see why you have moved him in this hypothetical. Sigh. Must prepare myself.
I am pro Williams.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
*When I say that I realize it could be difficult — if he wants to test the market I’m sure he could get that last big contract to get his family set for life.
I also don’t know who’d be on the trade block. So. Variables unknown.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
I have a
gigantic and needlessly elaborate chart of Kings rosters as line combinations and defensive pairs gong back five years into the past and forward five years into the future. I have considered posting the future part of it but have declined so far because so much of it is subjective and whimsical.
In that chart, Hickey/Voynov/Martinez are referred to as one player. Actually, as two. There is Hickey/Voynov/Martinez (a), and Hickey/Voynov/Martinez (b). They represent the first and second (respectively) of those three to make it. Sadly, Hickey/Voynov/Martinez © gets traded at some point in the next couple of years. This is not because I don’t like whichever one of those three it turns out to be, but because of what happens to Teubert/Muzzin (a) and Teubert/Muzzin (b).
Er, it’s complicated.
Wait till this year.
Damn autoformat works when you don’t want it to, and fails when you do!
I get it. And I think the idea of those charts are fun. You sure you’re not the Kings’ number-crunching guy? You have boxes.
Sadly, Hickey/Voynov/Martinez © gets traded at some point in the next couple of years.
Alternatively, the Kings could invest in experimental human engineering, combining the best assets of all three players into one new supercreature, with an extra set of hands and great vision, the three headed dynamo puckmover: HickVoyMart.
The blue line will be his domain. TERROR IN HIS WAKE.
Shortly afterward he will be paired with the Dread Pirate MuzzBert. And no one will be safe.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
that every time I get in any way down on Brown, Rudy talks some kind of snarky sense and within a few games Brown plays like Phil Esposito and I am very very glad he’s a King.
Yeah. Like Rudy says, both Dustins are Dustin. I have to remember this when his play makes me scratch my head. If we didn’t have him we’d go on about how we could use a guy who draws penalties and delivers hits while also putting up 20+ goals.
Right now we have 5 players doing the vast majority of our scoring, and he’s one of them. These weird head case games notwithstanding.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Over the last couple of seasons, I have noticed moments where Brown seems to be trying too hard. Like that game in Minny last season when he whiffed twice on a goal sitting in the crease with an open corner. And I wonder if it was a mistake to make him Captain at a young age, because my intuition is that’s what it comes from.
Which means that maybe the weird head-case moments will become less frequent as he matures. I hope.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
Yes, this. All of it.
Last year, he had a cold streak late. IIRC he was paired with Fro, who sent him all kinds of great passes, and he got some easy tap-ins and loosened up again. I think he wants to lead by example sooooo much, he can start oversteering the ship. And when his offense dries up he gets even harder on himself. Rinse and repeat.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
I think the key is to remember the buyers v. sellers distinction
If there’s one thing that I feel that I learned about Dean Lombardi last year, it’s that he tends to see trades in terms of improving the team now and maybe taking away something from the future (buying) vs. making the team worse in the short run and strengthening it in the long term (selling). If you’re a playoff team, you’re a buyer. If you’re out of the running (like the Kings mostly were until last season), you sell (hence trading Brad Stuart, somehow getting a pick for Aubin, etc.).
I don’t think he will make a mid-season deal just to “shake things up.”
He might trade a key roster player and a prospect/pick for (as Quisp says) a BIG piece if it improves the team’s overall skill level for the stretch run. But I don’t think it will be a trade of ripe apples for an equal quantity of ripe oranges.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
That's what she said :)
I would not be at all surprised to see a core player who is “not stepping up at crunch time” be the one to get moved.
Dustin Brown?
The more people I meet, the better I like my dog
Brown isn't going anywhere.
Yes Brown is not playing as well as he was in the first half of the season, but he is a freaking steal with a cap hit of .3.175 million for the next three years. Thats just over half of what smyth is making and he is much more valuable than smyth is. I think the Kings are shopping…
Smyth
Stoll
Zuess
Poni
Sturm
Maybe Simmonds but not without asking for a very high price.
I Agree About Brown
His cap hit is too good for the next few seasons. Having said that, other than Simmonds, I don’t think the Kings get much in return for the others on your list. Stoll and Handzus, maybe, the other three no way Who wants Smyth for another season at that cap hit? Who wants Poni or Sturm at all?
Having a good cap hit is also what makes him more attractive to other teams. But I don’t really want to trade Brown. I hope Dean just goes for Hemsky, maybe Spezza, if he can’t then don’t do anything. Hope for Richards in off-season.
For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.
Also, Iginla at 7 mil means not worth it, opposite of Brown with his contract.
For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.
Isn't Spezza's Cap Hit Around 7 mil as well?
I like him, and think he needs a change of scenery, but I wouldn’t want that contract.
Dustin Penner?
What do you think the value of Stoll or Zeus would be with a high draft pick? That would clear the way for Lokti/ Schenn. I’m kinda hoping for dustin penner in a trade. I think his style would compliment Kopi and Brwn on the first line and he fits the gritty style TM has implemented. We would have to send a player to EDM because they would fall below the minimum salary but I think that trading for a center creates a logjam for schenn lokti lewis zeus and stoll.
We kicked that around a bit in a previous thread
The problem, I suspect, is that Stoll or Zeus would not do much for EDM, which is in a rebuilding mode. Essentially, they would be dealing away their asset with the highest trade value for a pick and something they don’t need. Realistically, I think what the Oilers would want in return for Penner would include at least one component that the Kings would rather not give up.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
prospect paranoia
I saw the ‘Chester play a few weeks ago and Voyonov, Jones, Moller and Kozun were really impressive. In other words: DON’T MOVE THEM AS TRADE BAIT.
7 Million? Don't think so.
For my two cents there’s no way Lombardi trades for anyone with a mega contract. While the Kings are often heralded as having so much cap space, fans of the team see through this illusion given the cold reality of the impending extensions due to players like Doughty and Simmonds, and truth be told, Williams. For the value of what Brown brings, yes his contract makes him attractive to other teams. However, the Kings are one of the teams who sees this as attractive given DL very detailed contract mapping with Soloman. DL is really intense about making sure he has the players who fit, and the monetary aspect is a huge part of that. Brown’s contract is too good to lose, in my opinion.
All that said, I hate to say it but the most likely roster player to be traded would have to be Simmonds given the fact that he’s due up for a contract and that he’s attractive. I don’t want to seem him go though, and in that case I wonder what kind of a trade Lombardi could realistically pull off. I’m personally dreaming to hear about someone trading us a decent scorer for a 1st and Teubert, but who knows.
I don't think Simmonds will be traded. He will still be affordable even with a new contract.
Probably the most likely outcome this month will be that nothing very interesting happens.
Wait till this year.
If Simmonds keeps driving to the net like he did today, he'll be a King for a while to come
I would be astounded if Simmonds is actually traded.
It’s interesting that Wayne and Brownie are linked in this discussion. Yes, they play the same position and are probably best suited for the same role. But something they both share is genuine popularity with the fan base, and for reasons that are mostly, but not 100% hockey-related.
I think that Brown, over the last couple of seasons, has been prone to grip the stick a little too hard when the pressure is on. That may be the burden of being Captain weighing on him. But he’s also done a fantastic job as the public face of the team, with all of the charity work that he has done. He seems pretty sincere about it. I know that that in and of itself is not a reason to keep a guy on the roster, but when you combine it with Brownie’s actual hockey value, I think that makes him close to untouchable.
Simmonds has this interesting sort of charisma that I kind of grasp, but maybe not fully. He seems like a likable fellow, good-natured and modest, but also sincere. He’s also a tough, physical, hard-working player when he’s on his game, and those kinds of players are always popular with their home fans. But I think there’s something more than that going on, too. He is, after all, the Meat Train. If he gets dealt, the Kings had damned well better get something special in return, or the fan base will not be happy.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
Simmonds does have that intangible likability factor, doesn’t he? The fans really love him. I know I do. It’s arguable that he’s not having as good a season as maybe anticipated, but I still have no worries about him. Seems like losing him would not shake up the locker room in the good sense either, but just bum the team out. That’s my total fan’s projection on people I don’t know, but it just seems true.
And yeah, Brownie has the most elaborate king’s tattoo on his ass than anyone.
I'm thinking that will be the case too
It seems increasingly clear that for the players potentially available, the kings would have to offer someone they simply would not be willing to give up.
Somewhat related, it looks like the biggest let down of the season isn’t with any player’s performance, but Parse’s injury. Only played six games but had 5 points. Who knows what he could have done to make the whole trade for a Kopi winger topic totally moot?
Agreed about Parse
Bad for the Kings, and heartbreaking for him personally, I’m sure. I remember Lombardi saying something earlier this season along the lines of, “Well, we signed two guys over the summer to fill the gap at left wing, and now both of them are hurt.” The other guy being Ponikarovsky, of course.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
