Dean Lombardi Talks Trade Deadline
As with Tolstoy or Flaubert, the key to understanding Dean Lombardi is getting a good translation.
Lombardi and Kings intend to be active on trade deadline day
James Duthie: Over $4 million in cap space, do you expect to be a major player at the deadline?Dean Lombardi: I don't know if we'll be a player, but we'll certainly be active. But, whether or not something gets done, it takes two to tango and we'll see what happens. But I will definitely say we're active.
Duthie: What's your No. 1 need as you head towards the deadline?
Lombardi: [...] Defensively, we're one of the best teams in the league and our biggest need is to increase our scoring. We're pretty deep in terms of our forward position. I think we're probably trying to find, maybe a little better mix, or to upgrade our skill level. To be successful, we have to be more aggressive and score the classic Canadian ugly goals - going to the net, going low to high. I think we're a deep team, and I wouldn't think we need a lot of adjustments in terms of tweaking size or penalty killing or that type of thing.
The comment I put in bold really stands out to me, and not just because I put it in bold. I agree it's true this team as it is needs to score the "classic Canadian ugly goals" if they're going to win. But I'm perplexed by this statement in the context of a question about what the Kings need in terms of a trade deadline acquisition. Like a lot of people, I have been operating under the assumption that the Kings need a sniper for Kopitar's wing. Dustin Brown, Ryan Smyth, Jarret Stoll, Justin Williams, Wayne Simmonds, Kyle Clifford, Brayden Schenn -- these guys are all, to varying degrees, built in that "classic" North-South crash-and-bang blue-paint mold. Is Lombardi saying we need another one?
I don't think he is. The more I think about it, the more I think he's saying this team could be made better by me going out and getting a big, sexy top-six sniping LW, but it could also be made better by the players we have right now being more aggressive right now and scoring more of those ugly goals right now, without me necessarily doing anything splashy.
Also, saying "we're probably trying to find [...] a better mix" tells me that he's more likely to bring in a mid-level Lombardi-like character guy, a leader, as opposed to (for instance, and I'm picking a "type," not saying the actual person is available...) Dany Heatley. Fredrik Modin was a "better mix" guy (I think he was, anyway). Jeff Halpern was supposed to be.
A trade like last year's Modin or Halpern deal, or this year's Sturm deal, will certainly disappoint a lot of fans who are waiting for The Blockbuster. I am not waiting for it. I don't believe it's necessary. And I really don't want to deal away the kinds of prospects we would have to deal away in order to make The Blockbuster happen. (Not to mention the fact that, for better or worse, the cap makes true blockbusters extremely hard to pull off.)
Now, how about "we're probably trying to [...] upgrade our skill level"? Probably is a funny word to use when you probably know exactly what you're trying to do. When I hear probably, I replace it with, "how shall I put this?" Of course, you could interpret "upgrade our skill level" to mean that something big is going to happen, but I don't think so. Usually, when I think of that phrase it's in a context like, "This wasn't about going out and getting The Missing Piece, but we certainly upgraded our skill level today."
The last thing I want to over-analyze is a word he uses twice in describing what the team needs. The word is "deep."
Defensively, we're one of the best teams in the league and our biggest need is to increase our scoring. We're pretty deep in terms of our forward position. I think we're probably trying to find, maybe a little better mix, or to upgrade our skill level. To be successful, we have to be more aggressive and score the classic Canadian ugly goals - going to the net, going low to high. I think we're a deep team, and I wouldn't think we need a lot of adjustments in terms of tweaking size or penalty killing or that type of thing.
I agree the Kings are deep at the forward position. But what does that have to do with the question? Especially since he's just said the Kings need to increase scoring. There's a missing "but" there. "We're a deep at forward but we need to increase scoring." It goes without saying that we're not deep in terms of forwards who can score now. So why mention how deep we are at forward, twice?
Maybe because he's going to trade some of that depth in order to bring in whatever he's going to bring in. I also note that he specifically singles out depth at forward, when we are at least as deep on defense. I think this is a tell. He's not thinking of trading defensive prospects. That's the theory I'm working on (now watch him trade Hickey, Voynov, Martinez, Teubert and Forbort for Zach Parise).
I am using my remaining chicken bones to cast spells to keep Oscar Moller in the Kings organization. But that's probably just my paranoia.
One thing that I truly love about Dean Lombardi -- aside from the fact that he isn't short-sighted, appreciates the value of character, is patient, doesn't panic, and isn't afraid to do things that are unpopular or that cause head-scratching -- is that he just likes telling you stuff.
"You" in that sentence is not me, obviously. He tells Duthie or Rich Hammond and they write it down and we all get the benefit of actual access to Lombardi's process. Seriously, look at the quote in the box. That's a response to "what do the Kings need?" It could have gone down like this:
Duthie: What's your No. 1 need as you head towards the deadline?
Lombardi: Scoring.
Instead, look what we get:
- Defensively, we're one of the best teams in the league and
- our biggest need is to increase our scoring.
- We're pretty deep in terms of our forward position
- I think we're probably trying to find, maybe a little better mix,
- or to upgrade our skill level.
- To be successful, we have to be more aggressive
- and score the classic Canadian ugly goals -
- going to the net,
- going low to high.
- I think we're a deep team, and
- I wouldn't think we need a lot of adjustments in terms of tweaking size
- or penalty killing.
That answer -- aside from incidentally answering the question -- also manages to outline in some detail the team's entire philosophy. I'm a little surprised he didn't work in "building from the back outward, starting with goaltender, to defense, to forward," but maybe that's covered/implied under "defensively, we're one of the best teams in the league."
I love the fact that simple questions in a Lombardi interview can multiply into a forest of decision trees, metaphors, digressions and ruminations, just like it does with a bunch of die-hards in a bar or a man-cave or in the parking lot to their kids' school, arguing about what they would do if they were in charge of their team.
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We score tons (well, not tons) of ugly goals (no need to add Canadian there)
Anyhoo, I’d rather we stay put… Everybody is making moves, so the natural instinct is to make a move too… I’d rather we stay the course…
We really need a sniper on Kopitar’s line… Or anywhere, for that matter… Just don’t push the panic button and think that we have to win this year…
The more people I meet, the better I like my dog
It would be nice
But I’m not gonna die if they don’t… Just a winning record is enough for me… This team has a very long way to go…
The more people I meet, the better I like my dog
by angelofdeath on Feb 9, 2011 11:32 PM PST up reply actions
And why would the Rangers — a playoff-bound team in a conference where one of the top teams will be without Evgeni Malkin for the duration and Sidney Crosby indefinitely — sell up their top skill player for anyone the Kings would be willing to give up?
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
Sather might consider it so he can overpay for the next thing that catches his eye (Richards), but unless DL changes his personality overnight, I don’t see it happening.
However, the reality of the market has changed. Two seasons ago, there were many options. Last year, one. This year…well. Doesn’t look like there will be any big LW fish at all. And with the salary cap creating parity, I suppose that trend will continue.
Our options seem to be overpaying for an OK option with a good cap hit, overpaying for a better option with a bad cap hit, trading for a prospect, or waiting for something to come up. I don’t think he needs to make a move right now, though I’m sure he’s been working the phones all year, but the trade and FA climate going forward is a concern.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Okay, call me crazy...
But what about Dustin Penner? He’s got one more year at 4.25 and he has scored 30 goals for a very bad team. Why couldn’t he be a top 6 guy on a pretty good team?
Also
As a rookie, he scored 29 goals on the Cup winning Ducks(grrrrrrr). What would it take to pry him from the rebuilding Oilers?
by 88fingerslukee on Feb 10, 2011 1:16 AM PST up reply actions
I've come around to Penner as a good possible add
But the question is, does Edmonton think they’re so far away from contending that they’d sell him for prospects and picks? And which/how many prospects and picks would they want?
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
Edmonton would want stud D or Bernier. I’d rather have Hemsky.
For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.
I love Penner, and there's a thread on Cooper & Blue about this; I believe it's called "the rumor that won't die" or something
Predictably, the Oilers faithful overvalue Penner just as much as we overvalue our prospects. :) They are dreaming of Penner for Schenn and Loktionov or whatever it is. I said something like Penner for Stoll and a pick (at least, I think that’s what I said) and they derided me, as is their right. My main point is, why would Lombardi give up blue-chip prospects for a guy who is a free agent in a year anyway? It’s not like he’s the mythical Missing Piece.
Wait till this year.
He would never net a return of Schenn from Lombardi. But LeBrun did confirm that Edmonton is currently asking the moon for Penner. I look around at the deals that have gone down already, and how many teams still want to add, and that makes sense. They’re not in any hurry. They might think Penner could stick around for the rebuild, in any case, but who knows about that.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Yeah, that’s also the sticker, isn’t it? It’s not just what you’re willing to give up, but what the other party demands. Dean’s a smart guy, but he needs to learn Jedi mind tricks: “Kevin Westgarth is the forward you are looking for.”
OTOH, I don’t blame Edmonton fans for not wanting Stoll back + a pick for Penner. He’s probably the most marketable asset that they have, and Stoll probably wouldn’t help with the rebuild much.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
Yep. Why should any team help us out just because we need something? We wouldn’t. Especially not in our own conference. Everyone wants top forwards, so bidding wars are inevitable.
I also see so many people saying “Well, DL really has to make a move now! And the prices will be higher because the others overpaid!” But…he really doesn’t. Honestly, does anyone think this was THE year? A go for broke, mortgage our future, ‘damn the torpedoes’ type of situation? All the pundits worked themselves up into thinking we were the next Chicago or whatever, but I didn’t think we were single step away from it. I can’t tell you how many times I read “Doughty is in his last year of his ELC” like that window was crucial for a serious run. Now they’re angry that the Kings aren’t living up to the Super Cup Contender status they themselves bestowed upon this team. Okay. It would be a step back for them to miss the playoffs, supposing that even happens. But it wouldn’t be the end of them, either.
It’s also true that a need is still there. But with Fisher, Beauchemin, and Frolik joining the West, I don’t get the panic-mode assumptions. They may immediately work out for those teams; they may not. It’s not like Gretzky moved around or something. I’m more interested in seeing the Kings just mind their own business and play to their potential. And the pundits who think it’d be just great and no big deal to trade Schenn for the flavor of the month can take their eye-rolling and shove it. They have the attention spans of a gnat.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
I remember when I didn't know the names of a single Kings prospect until they played for the Kings
because I didn’t have access to that information, and also, to a lesser extent, because I didn’t care. If you don’t know anything about the players or how the farm system works, or how the cap works, of course you wouldn’t bat an eye in trading any of your prospects for famous superstars. You’re essentially trading something you didn’t know or care you had for something you desperately want.
But with Fisher, Beauchemin, and Frolik joining the West, I don’t get the panic-mode assumptions.
Ah, I have missed the hand-wringing. Where is it? I can probably guess.
As we have often observed, the trade deadline and 7/1 are two hockey Xmases, and people want their presents.
And the prices will be higher because the others overpaid!
I enjoy that rationale especially, because it’s absurd. (first of all, the ANA/TOR deal was a salary dump, but whatever.) There are only a few teams with the cap room to take on big salaries who also happen to be in playoff contention. The more deals that happen, the more people are done shopping, the fewer buyers there are. And it’s especially meaningless if everyone’s driving up the price of Cabbage Patch dolls, and you are in the market for a bike.
Yes, people do get hysterical and over-pay. How that is a bad thing for the Kings is beyond me. It’s easier to see it as teams doing damage to themselves.
Honestly, does anyone think this was THE year? A go for broke, mortgage our future, ‘damn the torpedoes’ type of situation?
Plus, a well-run franchise should never be in the “go for broke” situation. If they are, it’s bad management. Chicago had to go for broke, because they knew it was all going to fall apart in the summer, whether they won or not. You only go for broke if you’re already broken. Detroit never goes for broke. They know that if they get in there, they have a shot.
I don’t think this is “THE” year, if that means “the year the Kings become a dynasty.” But it could be “the year the Kings squeak in and get hot.” At which point, anything is possible.
In ’93, where did we finish? Sixth I think.
Wait till this year.
Plus, a well-run franchise should never be in the "go for broke" situation. If they are, it’s bad management.
Right, I was trying to summarize the mindset out there. And I got mad, but I’m not mad at fans. There are articles after articles out there that get this stuff going without considering things from the other side. Schenn for Iginla got started by the Calgary media. Yesterday I caught up and read things like Forsberg for Bernier, Clifford for Tim Connolly, etc, etc, and these ideas come from journalists. I mean, it’s not that Iginla and others aren’t worth a lot, but there’s a downside to moving so much of the Kings’ future for a temporary fix. And Lombardi has described many times what he’s doing. But considering that is apparently not worth these writers’ time.
I think the most reasonable, measured take I saw was from Dreger saying “There’s nothing wrong with building from within, but is this the year they move some of their prospects?” It just struck me how rare it is that you see even the first part of that sentence being said.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
We are on the same page.
I appreciate that Dreger’s “is this the year they move some of their prospects?” is at least framed as a question, even though it’s mostly rhetorical. I take that question seriously though, and I don’t know the answer. At least, I know the answer is complicated.
Wait till this year.
I think we're getting close
Because IMO, the answer to that question is that you think about moving some prospects to fill your needs when you look at your reserve list and you see more legit prospects that you can reasonably expect of use at the NHL level at any given level. Jones’ emergence this season gives us a hint of what that’s like: possibly three young NHL-caliber goalies, but you can only fit two on the roster. Probably, you’d rather turn the asset you can’t use into an asset that you need.
I know that doesn’t address Dreger’s question head-on, but that’s how I look at it.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
Yes, but that involves anticipating exactly when each of those little traffic jams will come to a head, if I may mix metaphors
Bernier and Quick have two more years on their contracts, so I wouldn’t expect one of those two or Jones to be dealt for awhile.
Two and maybe three of Loktionov, Moller and Schenn are likely, in the long run, to take the place of Williams, Stoll and Smyth. One or both of Kitsyn and Toffoli are a couple years being the first group. I would be more surprised if fewer than three of those five become NHL regulars. And if they all do (possible), there’s room for them. The only top-six forwards signed after next season are Kopitar and Brown. That’s intentional.
The only place where I see a real log-jam forming is on defense. Specifically, the non-big speedy offensive-minded d-men: Hickey, Voynov, Martinez, Deslauriers. On a team with Johnson and Doughty, there simply isn’t room for all four of those guys. And then there’s Forbort, Teubert, Muzzin and Gravel. Gravel is Greene, big stay at home guy. I don’t know when Teubert is going to be ready, but I can easily imagine Muzzin making the team next year and Forbort and Gravel in three years. if you assume next year’s D is Johnson, Doughty, Scuderi, Mitchell, Greene — you’ve got two spots, maybe three (one or two in the press box) for Martinez, Muzzin, Hickey, Voynov. Deslauriers is a couple of years away, at least (I think; what do I know?). Hickey and Voynov could conceivably spend another year in the AHL, but … I don’t know. I don’t think so.
Scuderi-Johnson
Mitchell-Doughty
xx-Greene
yy-zz
Martinez, Muzzin, Voynov, Hickey.
I even have a hard time imagining Voynov or Hickey being a healthy scratch for most of a season. So that’s where I see the surplus. And don’t ask me who to trade either. Because I think all four have a great chance of having long careers, and probably two of them won’t be on the Kings when that happens.
Wait till this year.
I need more coffee
I meant “behind” not “being”
I meant I would be more surprised if fewer than three of those five forwards made it, than if they all made it.
Wait till this year.
i agree re Stoll and a pick
but i wasn’t trying to propose something they would want. i was trying to propose something of equivalent value.
Wait till this year.
To Tolstoy and Flaubert, I would add Jerry Lewis
My understanding is that he’s so popular in France because the guy who subtitled his movies in French did a brilliant job.
I read that Lombardi discourse pretty much as Quisp did. Dean basically said, “I like us defensively; I’d like to add a Top 6 skill guy and I’ll try, but it won’t be easy. If I can’t, I may try to bring in another Ryan Smyth-type guy.”
There are so many problems with pulling off The Blockbuster that whenever I hear someone rag on Lombardi as if it’s easy as tying your shoes, I just want to grab that person by the collar and slap some sense into him. Just because that kind of stupidity is dangerous unless nipped in the bud. I mean, think about it: How many Dany Heatleys and Marion Gaboriks are out there, and how many players that good are on teams that will be out of contention at the trade deadline?
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
Another thought:
Does anyone seriously think that NJ will part with Parise for anything short of a brand-new set of foundation players for that franchise? With so many aging players (particularly Brodeur close to the end of the line) and Kovalchuk a payroll-eating bust, what else can they pin their hopes on except Parise?
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
They won't part with Parise
unless Parise forces a trade by not signing this summer.
Wait till this year.
I'm With Quisp on This One
Saw this interview live on TSN the other day, and found it odd that on either side of the interview both Dreger and Mackenzie used the word “desperate” to describe Lombardi and the Kings. Dean isn’t desperate. The need for a scoring winger has been there for a few seasons now, and Lombardi hasn’t pulled the trigger yet. He is patient and will wait. I think he will add someone at the deadline, but a big deal, I don’t think so. Penner is going to cost too much for Lombardi, and Edmonton can afford to be patient and not jump at any trade offered for him. Lombardi tweaks the lineup this trade deadline, but does not adds “the one”.
In fact, if Lombardi WERE desperate
I think his reaction would be to double-down on acting super-extra not-desperate.
Wait till this year.
Partial agreement
I’m a SoCal transplant living in the MidWest now. I see a lot of other televised games and get the benefit of other “talking heads” points-of-view. My understanding, right or wrong, of the statement “going to the net, going low to high” as to do with having the puck down low and working it back out to the point, taking shots and/or working it back in to create scoring opportunities. Of the few Kings games I get to see, I don’t see that much of that type of play, its the same old dump-and-chase. Not that this type of player is available, but I think a REAL playmaker is want the Kings need, i.e. St. Louis, Datsyuk, Richards. Go KINGS Go!
I agree that the Kings need more skill
But as you say, a deal for that type of player is very unlikely, if not impossible. That’s part of the problem with complaining that the Kings don’t have enough skill. :-) I’m sure Dean’s trying, but realistically, there’s not a great deal that can be done about it in the short term.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
Or Perhaps Two Things
Clearly the Kings system, simple and effective last year, didn’t cut it after the first 30 games this season. The adjustment is taking a long time. We see players over focus on not being caught down low and saw a “system fart” when they froze and returned to their old style in that disastrous 5 on 3 power play.
The second part is key, Smyth. Perhaps this is a part of what Lombardi is alluding to in more skill. His play in front of the net is great as always while puck possession, passing and speed is different from last season when he was a team spark plug. His play on this squad is the second part of the puzzle.
I am on board with Quisp’ post script below , angleofdeath’s opening comment and Neisy’s conclusion. No sense wasting capital on sow’s ears.
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
I totally agree, but I think I muddled my point:
When Dean starts talking about “going to the net” and “going low to high”, he’s talking about what the current Kings need to do to improve. He’s not talking at all, I don’t think, about the kind of player he’s going to bring in. As I mentioned, Brown, Stoll, Williams, Smyth, Simmonds, Schenn, Clifford…they’re all that kind of player. I agree that watching the Kings, they sometimes don’t play that way. That’s what Lombardi is saying. Essentially, “maybe we don’t need a trade, if you guys would start doing what you are sometimes so good at doing.”
I also agree that a sniper is what we need. It will be interesting to see if Lombardi doesn’t bring in another blue-collar blue-paint guy, just because that’s his default and that may be the best he can do under the circumstances (I just hope if he does that, he doesn’t trade away the snipers of tomorrow, e.g. Moller, Toffoli, Mikus*).
- ?
Wait till this year.
Didn't you hear?
AEG just had a Tleilaxu cloning vat installed in the basement in El Segundo. They’re going to clone Luc over and over again, like Duncan Idaho in the Dune novels.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
So that would make Heidi Androl a member of the Honored Matres and Helene Elliot is an ol’ bird from the Bene Gesserit?
Taylor Morgan: "My abortion was botched!"
Teemu Selanne: "Wow. That sounds awesome."
by DodgerBlueBalls on Feb 10, 2011 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
That’s what Lombardi is saying. Essentially, "maybe we don’t need a trade, if you guys would start doing what you are sometimes so good at doing."
Or, in the case of Stoll, Williams and Smyth, “… if you guys would do more consistently what I freaking brought you here to do.” The consistency issue is that team doesn’t always play the way they were designed to play.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
That’s what Lombardi is saying. Essentially, "maybe we don’t need a trade, if you guys would start doing what you are sometimes so good at doing.
Same can be said for six other western teams only they seem to do what they are good at just a hair more often than LA; Which makes sense given that most began readjusting earlier in the season.
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
Fisher to Nashville
A first and a conditional. Interesting…I bet both he and the wife are stoked on their new location.
Best job in the world...
…has to be to become the “CEO” of a company, professional sports team or even a country that has so underperformed in recent history that shareholders, fans, voters, have no expectation of success whatsoever. Then run those expectations even lower right after you take the job…tell people that the situation is even worse than you imagined and that it is going to take a very long time to get out of the hole your predecessor(s) dug…keep managing the expectations that rebuilding will be a slow painful slog. Rely on the law of averages that things can’t suck forever as long as you don’t screw things up too much…and when things improve take the credit…and if they don’t remind people of how bad things were…make sure you get a 6…or even 8 year deal…no longer than that because then you might actually be held accountable.
















