Calling OCD hockey fans: it's Tie-Breaker Story Problem #1

by Quisp on Mar 16, 2011 1:49 PM PDT

This is the first of six scenarios I have been mulling over regarding the potential impending tie-breaker cluster****. I'll put one up every day, or maybe every other day, or maybe all of them today if I get bored.

This is not a quiz, because if there's a right answer, I don't know it. Maybe somebody does, somewhere, but I don't believe the rules as stated on the NHL.com or ESPN site resolve these issues. So in the comments, if you "know" it's one way or the other, or some as yet unmentioned way, I'm mostly interested in what is actually true, not what we're "sure" must be true.

I'm looking for iron-clad logic based on the rules, or some set of other rules I haven't been able to find (yes, I have looked in the CBA and the rule book; I see nothing, but I may have missed a crucial clause somewhere). I'm dying to know what everyone thinks. The hive mind ought to be able to get to the bottom of this.

And if you happen to work for the league, um, don't hesitate to chime in. :)

NHL tiebreaking procedures - NHL - ESPN

TIEBREAKER

In the event teams are tied in the standings, the following tiebreakers are applied to determine which team receives the higher seeding.

1. The fewer number of games played (i.e., superior points percentage).

2. The greater number of games won (not including games won in a shootout).

3. The greater number of points earned in games between the tied clubs. If two clubs are tied, and have not played an equal number of home games against each other, points earned in the first game played in the city that had the extra game shall not be included. If more than two clubs are tied, the higher percentage of available points earned in games among those clubs, and not including any "odd" games, shall be used to determine the standing.

4. Goal differential.

In the poll, wins = regulation plus OT wins.

(p.s. I'm starting with the most straight-forward of the bunch. They get harder.)

CLARIFICATION: the following is a hypothetical scenario; it in no way reflects the actual season with the actual teams and their actual records. I could have said Team A, Team B, etc... Carry on.

Poll

CHI, DET, LAK and DAL are tied at 4th after 82 games. They are also tied in wins. In the head-to-head tie-breaker, CHI and DET have 30 pts, LAK 28 and DAL 26. To determine the final standings, you:

assign Los Angeles and Dallas the 6th and 7th spots (respectively), and proceed to the goal-differential tie-breaker to determine, among the remaining tied teams (Detroit and Chicago), who gets the 4th and who gets the 5th spot.

48 votes

assign Los Angeles and Dallas the 6th and 7th spots (respectively) and repeat the head-to-head tie-breaker recalculating for only Detroit and Chicago.

38 votes

since no winner was determined by the "head-to-head" tie-breaker, all four teams proceed to the goal-differential tie-breaker.

20 votes

106 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 18 comments | 0 recs |

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Comments

Two words:

No recalculation!

by BakoCA on Mar 16, 2011 2:14 PM PDT reply actions

two words:

why not?

Wait till this year.

by Quisp on Mar 16, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions

Not sure I have enough data to solve.

Unless Nashville ends really strong, shouldn’t one of CHI or DET be at #3? And I’m assuming in your example that SJ is 1st in the “Smythe” division.

I think one would first have to find who from CHI or DET gets to win the “Norris” division just because of no other reason that to finalize the Division first before the conference. So, I’d go with the tie breaker between CHI and DET (1-on-1 head to head, not 4-way). Then if that’s tied, I’d do the goals differential between these 2.

Then, it would be a 3-way tie between CHIorDET, LAK, DAL. The points we’d want to look at would be for the games involving only those 3 teams. If 2 are tied for 1st, tie-break those 2 and assigned #3 to the remaining team.

by Passemoilapuck on Mar 16, 2011 2:15 PM PDT reply actions

Clearly, in this example none of the 4 won their divison. Quisp made it pretty clear that these hypotheticals are not based on the reality of this year’s standings.

by Garrett79 on Mar 16, 2011 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions

I posted this before the bolded clarification. Or at least that’s what I’ll say in court.

In that case, I would say that the 4-way tie is partially broken at step 1, leaving LAK and DAL at #6 and #7. Then, the remaining unbroken tie would go to the next (tie)breaker.

by Passemoilapuck on Mar 16, 2011 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions

I Don't Think There Is an Official Answer

But the only thing that makes sense to me is that you would break the first tie, the fourway tie, and then start over if there are any other ties. That way, the NHL’s “tiebreaking procedure” is used and you don’t have a weird situation where say Detroit has the better +/- but Chicago has more points in the games between them so Detroit gets the higher seed even though the NHL’s rules clearly give more weight to head-to-head records.

Basically under this model, the tie is officially broken- the 4 teams are no longer tied. It just so happens that there is a new tie between Chicago and Detroit that must be broken, so you would start back over at the beginning.

Hopefully that made as much sense written out as it did in my head (which was, admittedly, very little).

The NHL is no doubt hoping this won’t be an issue this season so they can address it during the summer.

by Garrett79 on Mar 16, 2011 3:02 PM PDT reply actions

Sorry about the “I’m pretty sure” comment, by the way; I just wanted to explain my own vote. I am looking forward to the remaining hypotheticals!

by Garrett79 on Mar 16, 2011 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions

Reasoning

I think that the first one is correct (move on to goal differential between DET and CHI).

If more than two clubs are tied, the higher percentage of available points earned in games among those clubs, and not including any “odd” games, shall be used to determine the standing.

All four teams are tied so the standings are determined by the higher percentage of points in games between them. This results in DET and CHI still tied for 4th and 6th and 7th place are determined. You would then move on to goal differential to break the 4th place tie.

Step 3 implies that the calculation is done between tied clubs i.e. teams that are still tied after #1 and #2. If the rule was different it should state something like “repeat step three until there is a winner or go onto step 4.”

by JackEsq on Mar 16, 2011 3:03 PM PDT reply actions

Missed Vote

Change one vote from #3 to #1.

Clearly the two superior teams should be awarded the upper slots.

Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?

by USHA#17 on Mar 16, 2011 5:14 PM PDT reply actions

I choose the option that has the Kings with the higher seed

I'm nobody's fool, least of all yours

by BoulderDodger on Mar 17, 2011 1:04 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs

For a frame of reference

I know in football the way tie breakers work is that once a team is eliminated from from a tie breaking procedure the tie breaking procedure begins anew for any remaining teams that are still tied.

by chruceg on Mar 17, 2011 7:09 AM PDT reply actions

That is helpful.

In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC

by Niesy on Mar 17, 2011 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions

helpful and yet begs the question

Wait till this year.

by Quisp on Mar 18, 2011 6:42 AM PDT up reply actions

i propose...

have the coaches battle in a MMA style tournament for the playoff seeding….c’mon…who doesnt wanna see Bacock and TM punching each other?!

"It's not illegal. It's frowned upon, like masturbating on an airplane."-Alan Garner

by card_base on Mar 17, 2011 11:11 AM PDT reply actions

Remember that pre-season game against the Avs when Crawford and Andy Murray got after each other? I seriously thought Craw was going to climb the partition between the benches to get at him. That would have made it even funnier.

"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim

by DougX on Mar 17, 2011 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions