VAN 3 - LAK 1 -- Postgame Bullets
by Quisp on Apr 1, 2011 1:47 PM PDT
in Game Recaps
Email
Print
- In my opinion, the play that was the "game changer" was the Alec Martinez shot off Oscar Moller's nifty pass, which Roberto Luongo knocked down with his glove in the second period. That would have made it 2-0 Kings.
- Drew Doughty's two "errors." I don't exactly -- or at least entirely -- blame Doughty for either one, and here's why: that's what you get for all this talk about stepping up. Everybody and his brother has been encouraging the leaders of this team to "step up" in the wake of the recent injuries. Pretty much everyone singles out Drew Doughty as prime stepper-upper candidate #1. Well, he stepped up. And by stepping up, he stepped right out of the system, nobody covered for him, and we got burned. Subtract one if not two points for the Kings. How does "stepping up" (good) differ from "trying to do too much" (bad)? Who knows. Actually, I know. The difference is, if you score, you're stepping up. If you don't, you're trying to do too much. There is a balance, of course, but it requires the whole team to be on the same page, or else "stepping up" doesn't help, and in fact, hurts.
- Those two goals last night illustrate how quickly the smallest misjudgment can lead directly to a loss.
- Didn't Brad Richardson have a scoring chance in the third? I'm wondering if the zero shots thing is related to shot-counting homerism.
- Great goal by Kyle Clifford, great pass by Doughty, and even greater Clifford celebration. I sense a Clifford celebration compilation coming.
- I haven't studied any replays, so don't jump down my throat when I say that I didn't think, watching it in real time, that Clifford's hit deserved any penalty at all. The guy knew he was there, turned into the check, and ducked down so his head would get the brunt of it. Not intentially. He just wanted to slip under the check, I think. But too bad. That one is not Clifford's fault. (Yes, yes, I know, they're being extra careful these days -- do it when the game isn't on the line and the check isn't marginal.)
32 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Clifford's hit
Should have been a 2 min boarding at most, especially when the hit on Handzus was not penalized. Not that the hits were the same, but if the argument is that the place on the ice was dangerous, then there ya go. Also Handzus didn’t even have the puck.
I don’t get it. No offense, but really…how can you blame the hittee?
After a whole season of preaching respect, there is no way that goes unpunished.
How can you say he turned into it? I suspect at least some of you here play, you know you cannot stop without bending your body slightly. You just can’t.
All the kid did was scrub some speed, he makes a little fake to try and get the guy off, because he knows he is going to get hit. He then tries to put the puck up the boards.
Clifford could have done what they are preaching get done all season long, ride the guy into the boards. Instead, his hand goes to the lower back, he hits in the numbers, and then exacerbates it by driving his hip into the head.
Your own coach said he did wrong, that he should “let up there”. It was disrespectful….and exactly what the NHL does not want. It was worth the penalty, and the Kings are lucky there was no suspension. Have seen the same hit net people 2 games.
Getting a little sick of people trying to rationalize their teams’ players doing something stupid with the “other guy turned into it”, or “he should have protected himself better”. I played defense for a while, there is no other way to go in the corner for a puck.
Plus, Clifford was looking at his numbers for a full 5 seconds, an eternity in hockey terms. He then proceeded to make sure he hit him in the numbers.
That being said….the puck was there when Zeus got hit, but that could have been a two minute for boarding call, just for the danger of where it was. The difference was only that all three guys arrived at the puck the same time…well, Rome a beat later.
I hope when its a King that gets his head mushed by a disrespectful hit, that you guys are as fair. Its tough, I know, in a fast game. But those here, and everywhere, that have played, know there is little more the kid could do. Scrubbing off some speed so he does not run through the boards does not mean Tanev “put himself in a dangerous position”.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod, "Ninety-five per cent of this team has been through playoff failure and we don't want to be part of that anymore. I don't think it's about learning anymore; we've learned enough." Daniel with his eye on the prize. 03/31/11
How can you say he turned into it? I suspect at least some of you here play, you know you cannot stop without bending your body slightly. You just can’t.
Uh, because he did. He faked one way, and went the other way, after looking to see that Clifford was coming. Clifford should have eased up but there is no way that should have a 5 minute major and definitely not a suspension.
Getting a little sick of people trying to rationalize their teams’ players doing something stupid
That being said….the puck was there when Zeus got hit, but that could have been a two minute for boarding call, just for the danger of where it was. The difference was only that all three guys arrived at the puck the same time…well, Rome a beat later.
For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.
by Nut on Apr 1, 2011 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can't disagree with you. Like I said, it was just my first impression. You might be right.
I have (once upon a time) been in many situations where a guy I was about to hit ducked down like that and got his head crunched, and my reaction was always, “dude, why did you do that?”
But, sure, I’ll give you the “he should have let up.” He should have.
I’m not trying to rationalize, by the way. I was a defensemen my entire playing life. I understand what you’re saying about “there’s no other way to go for a puck.” But, I would never duck down to avoid a hit like that, because it’s putting myself in a bad position, and I’m sure you’re no different.
However, if the play went down as you described (looking at his numbers for 5 seconds, then making sure he’s hits him in the numbers) then I would say that’s suspendable. Remember, I haven’t rewatched the hit. But let me go do that now and see what I think.
Wait till this year.
No worries Quisp
Like I said, its a tough one. I don’t think he was inentionally trying to duck, rather your body naturally folds a bit when you do a hockey stop.
He did follow him in from almost the blue line. I just think Don Cherry might have a point with putting those stop signs on the helmets of pros as well as us duffers.
Tough one though.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod, "Ninety-five per cent of this team has been through playoff failure and we don't want to be part of that anymore. I don't think it's about learning anymore; we've learned enough." Daniel with his eye on the prize. 03/31/11
I feel mixed
After a whole season of preaching respect, there is no way that goes unpunished.
Yes. Any hit that remotely looks like Clifford’s hit must be penalized under today’s rules.
But in this specific case I felt a suspension or a major was not the right call. They went in together, it was not blind or a run. Two minutes and no argument from me.
That being said….the puck was there when Zeus got hit,
Watching televised replays I feel comfortable saying " “No, the puck was not there.” That’s the key. No one touched the puck on its way to the boards.
The difference was only that all three guys arrived at the puck the same time,
Not quite. Two players were locked up heading to a puck about 10’ ahead of them. Rome came across and blindsided Handzus on the goal line.
It was a dirty hit. Handzus might have easily lost a knee… I may not like it but in the end I felt it was merely a missed interference call.
. .
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
2 minutes
I was shocked they called it a 5. I don’t remember the last time I saw a 5-minute boarding penalty. And that one didn’t even look too bad. Tanev totally knew he was there and he didn’t get hurt.
What really offended me though was the penalty they called to make it a 5-on-3. I was watching with a Canuck fan and even he said it was weak.
The second penalty was weak
Tanev is out with injury, and a callup has taken his spot. He may have a concussion.
Come on now.
Yes though, that penalty on Greene was weak as weak can be….
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod, "Ninety-five per cent of this team has been through playoff failure and we don't want to be part of that anymore. I don't think it's about learning anymore; we've learned enough." Daniel with his eye on the prize. 03/31/11
Looks like it was slightly more serious than I had initially understood it to be. But the Canucks have not said Tanev has a concussion or even that he’s going to miss a game. Most Canucks fans from wha I’ve read also seem to recognize that he definitely put himself in a position to get hurt. Should Big Red have pulled up? Certainly. Was it 100% his fault? Nope.
by Garrett79 on Apr 1, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thats what I am saying Garrett.
Its on the hitter. Please explain to me what he should do, without just leaving the puck there for the forward.
Honestly, with no homerism. Could care less which “fans” you discussed it with. I am getting so sick of this "well, he saw him coming, he should have put himself in a better position " guff.
Honestly. What is he supposed to do? Not go for the puck? Stand aside and say..“oh, you are a big guy, by all mean take it”
It is 100% the hitter’s fault because of that. Its what they have preached all season long. Maybe Burke’s idea of allowing the “bear hug” would have helped, but honestly, Clifford could have easily went for the puck there.
He instead looked at the kid’s numbers the whole way into the corner and decided it was a good idea to plow him into the board.
Stop blaming the victim. Or please, enlighten me. Maybe playing until 19, coaching and reffing a little after that, and being a fan all my life (47 now) is not enough, and I am always willing to learn.
But give me more than “he put himself in a position to be hurt”. Because its the same position every defenseman puts himself in a dozen times a game. It is not an open invitation to have your head smushed.
Oh, and its four games to the playoffs..they called it an “upper body injury”. It was his head that got smushed. I just did the math… ;-)
(BTW…not trying to be a fan from another team dick, I honestly want to know…)
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod, "Ninety-five per cent of this team has been through playoff failure and we don't want to be part of that anymore. I don't think it's about learning anymore; we've learned enough." Daniel with his eye on the prize. 03/31/11
Just watch the recent Detroit vs Van game. There were ample opportunities where each team’s player could get smoked into the boards, but they all decided to just give them a bump and dislodge the puck. That’s all we’re going for right? No need to crush the defender especially when he has position.
Frequent visitor to Nucks Misconduct.
Got the call to the big leagues!
I don’t know the answer. But the idea of not hitting a guy in the numbers derives from people being most vulnerable to injury when they don’t know the hit is coming.
Tanev knew the hit was coming.
In my opinion, Clifford deserved 2 minutes because he went too hard but not 5. 5 minutes should be for blatantly ridiculous plays where you hit a guy 5 feet from boards from behind when he doesn’t know you’re coming, which is a hell of a lot more dangerous than the way this play went down.
by Garrett79 on Apr 1, 2011 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It is a tough call.
I think knowing the guy is coming ( you should know who’s coming ) should not preclude it being 2 instead of 5.
I just think thats a play they are trying to remove from the game, because its a “no respect” thing. I like Burke’s bearhug idea.
Anything to prevent guys getting hurt.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod, "Ninety-five per cent of this team has been through playoff failure and we don't want to be part of that anymore. I don't think it's about learning anymore; we've learned enough." Daniel with his eye on the prize. 03/31/11
still haven't rewatched it, but to answer your question
i would try to cut the direction i think he thinks i’m not going to go, use the boards properly (as a brace), get to a shoulder line perpendicular to the boards position ASAP, and “stay big” i.e. no hunching over, etc.. then, if the guy elbows you in the head, there’s nothing you can do, but otherwise, you’re good to go.
Wait till this year.
by Quisp on Apr 1, 2011 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Boarding is now an automatic penalty, like slashing a stick. You drive a guy headfirst into the boards, you get a penalty. People know this and they may put themselves in a bad position to draw a penalty. (You see this in college all the time because they call it fanatically in that league.) Tanev may have put himself in a bad position, he may have simply been trying to evade the check, but it doesn’t really matter: Clifford drove him through the numbers into the boards, Tanev was down for a while, 5 minutes.
If Kyle Clifford wants to harm a man, he’ll punch that dude in the face.
I hope everyone knows I have no intention of facing this sober.
by McSwarley on Apr 1, 2011 3:36 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
If Kyle Clifford actually wants to hurt a man, he’ll just do a Clint Eastwood-style squint at him with those beady little eyes of his. :-)
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
Beady? Jim Fox has beady eyes. Clifford not so much. He just looks into your soul and scares the crap outta it.
I hope everyone knows I have no intention of facing this sober.
by McSwarley on Apr 1, 2011 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
I haven’t studied any replays, so don’t jump down my throat
Apparently, at least one of our visitors from Vancouver didn’t read that part, or pay it no nevermind. But I suppose details are not important.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
No one's jumping down anyone's throat.
When the hittee is getting blamed, and I know from personal experience what that feels like in the corner, I honestly want to know…what would you have him do?
Its a no win. He is coming up to a board. The end, no where to go. You turn left or right. He tried to go up the boards.
Its going to happen the other way, because its a fast sport. I honestly want to know, what will be the attitude, and what should the defenseman do to prevent that happening to him.
As far as I can see, nothing, but hope the opponent does not smush him. There is a reason those stop signs in minor hockey are on the back of helmets. Its to make the hitter think, not the hittee.
It is a basic conundrum of the game, isn’t it? I suspect it is just respect.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod, "Ninety-five per cent of this team has been through playoff failure and we don't want to be part of that anymore. I don't think it's about learning anymore; we've learned enough." Daniel with his eye on the prize. 03/31/11
in general, i would disagree with myself and weigh in on the side of respect
i couldn’t find a replay of the hit.
Wait till this year.
In any case the situation is getting better…will just be much the same process as moving away from “clutch and grab” and the (now) more frequent calling of penalty shots.
I really don’t believe either player had anyplace to go on that play. It was a tight game, intensely played game.
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
I love Clifford, BUUUUUT......
I hate how that isn’t a supension. Someone is going to die like that some day if they don’t step up and do something about hits like this one, this one, and the Clifford one from last night.
And don’t tell me Tanev turned into it. He’s protecting the puck. If he doesn’t protect the puck with his body by showing Clifford his back, he probably turns it over, and gives up a scoring chance. And as a rookie, he wants to stay in the NHL because he may not get another chance. So his career could have ended on that play either way; either very violently, or not so much.
A GUY’S NUMBERS JUST NEED TO BE OFF-LIMITS. There are other ways to win a battle and gain puck control than by ramming a guy head-first into the wall, and potentially severely injuring him in the process.
Giv'r
okay, i looked at the replay about 50 times, and here's the problem
with both players about ten feet from the boards, tanev looks back over his left shoulder and sees clifford. at this point, clifford is not squarely behind tanev, he’s mostly to the left of him. maybe a couple of feet behind him and 6-8 feet to the left. clifford’s skates are pointing toward tanev, tanev’s skates are pointing toward behind the net.
if you freeze the frame a millisecond later, you can see that tanev is still skating as though he will be carrying the puck behind the net and clifford is angled to intercept him NOT FROM BEHIND but in a legal body-check shoulder to shoulder.
another millisecond later — and about three feet from the boards — tanev shifts his weight and turns his skates hard to the right. this of course has the effect of turning his body from facing behind the net to facing face first into the boards.
next frame, clifford corrects his angle to pinch off tanev and makes contact.
the entire sequence, from the moment tanev starts to turn to the right, to the hit, takes about 1/16th to 1/8th of a second.
the argument that tanev had “no choice” but to be vulnerable in exactly that way (other than to give up the puck) is canceled out by the argument that clifford had “no choice” but to stop tanev from going past him to the right. in both cases, the player was trying not to make a costly error which could cost him his job.
the argument that goes “don’t tell me tanev turned into it” is not an argument. he turned into “it.” clifford didn[t make a choice to ram tanev’s head into the boards. he made a choice to stop him from going around him to the right. the choice was instinctive and took about 1/32nd of a second.
Wait till this year.
How does “stepping up” (good) differ from “trying to do too much” (bad)? Who knows. Actually, I know. The difference is, if you score, you’re stepping up. If you don’t, you’re trying to do too much. There is a balance, of course, but it requires the whole team to be on the same page, or else “stepping up” doesn’t help, and in fact, hurts.
Spot on.
And it doesn’t surprise me that the hit on Handzus isn’t getting as much attention as the one on Tanev. I can only imagine what it would be like if the teams were reversed.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Drew Doughty’s two “errors.”
The first one was undoubtedly his fault. He was the last man back and made a dangerous pass, but more importantly, he made a dangerous pass and then jumped into the zone without making sure the pass got through. It’s OK because he’ll learn he can’t do that, but it’s still an error on his part.
The second one was Handzus’ fault because he should have covered Doughty and he didn’t. I think he thought the period was about to end and Vancouver wouldn’t be able to get a shot off in time.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Jewels From The Crown
Related FanShots on Jewels From The Crown
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
