So I went to the archives to prove all the whiners are wrong
by Quisp on Apr 26, 2011 7:35 PM PDT
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...unfortunately...
Damn interwebs!
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Et, tu Kevin?
Kevin Constantine, San Jose Sharks head coach: 1993-1996
(Full kudos to fellow poster Rick Knickle for finding this clip.)
Just proves Old school is Old school – no disrespect meant by it all. That is of course – if Sharks fans are willing to recognize the false “guilty parallel” here.
Hate to say this...
I take that back. I actually am LOVING that I’m saying this:
—Who in the name of Setoguchi’s left butt cheek CARES?
I thought the Sharks were the big boy team ready to play for a Cup, not a group of whiny little girls more interested in the fake tea in their little play teacups at their little girl tea party?
Maybe I was wrong. The Sharks better get over their little snit, or the Scarlet Wheel’s tossed octopus will strangle them to death…
Is that just a still, or did you find video?
Because from that shot of TM shaking hands with Luongo, it doesn’t look like he went into the handshake line. It reminds me more of the end of a college football game, where the head coaches make it a point to meet and shake hands, but if you happen to come face to face with an opposing player — especially a star/key player — you’re not going to be rude and give him the cold shoulder.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
I’m wondering that too. I went back and watched a video of the postgame handshakes last year and you could see Murray went over to the bench and then shook hands with one of the Sedins when walking back towards the Kings bench because he approached Murray. It’s hard to say for sure because the cameras kept switching to closeups of the players shaking hands but it didn’t look like he got in the line to shake everyone’s hands.
holy jesus are you guys watching the canucks-hawks?
Quite possibly the only LA Kings fan living in Brooklyn, New York.
Had to break my hiatus for this
Talked to many NHL coaches today. Many of them simply do not do it, view handshake as player ritual. Some do shake but say no obligation.
In light of this and other similar posts, I might take this incident off my list of reasons to dislike Terry Murray. I still think you all would feel miffed too if it was the other way around and McLellan was the one who didn’t show up on the ice for the handshakes.
by Rhapsody in Teal on Apr 26, 2011 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly….. what a total waste of time to make such a big deal out of nothing.
I don’t mean to be rude….. but young men are giving their lives in Afghanistan and Iraq, and you guys are worrying about this stuff??
Oh, OK. Have it your way.
Did you make this argument during the outrage over the Purdy article? Did you use this argument to reduce the importance of the entire game last night, not just Terry Murray’s actions following it? I’m sure you were emotionally involved just like the rest of us, and not sitting there thinking of everyone in the world that has it worse.
by Rhapsody in Teal on Apr 26, 2011 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Good question.... Excellent question
Did I make this argument over the importance of the entire game?
Um…. no I didn’t. The nhl plays an 82 game schedule and then 16 teams play best of seven series. Everyone knows that. That happens each and every year (unless there is a lockout year, in which case no games are played).
How on earth is people snarking about the Purdy article in any way, shape, or form equivalent to players calling out a coach on Twitter and getting everyone riled up, only to have McKenzie et al debunk it?
Dreger’s bit on that ends by asking if Mayers and Setoguchi went too far on Twitter. That says something.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
young men are giving their lives in Afghanistan and Iraq, and you guys are worrying about this stuff??
This sounds like he’s saying Sharks fans, particularly the commenters on FTF, are overreacting to Terry Murray’s absence from the handshake tradition. I brought up the Purdy article merely to draw a parallel, as many Sharks fans feel Kings fans overreacted to that.
As for the tweets from Seto and Mayers, they probably should have held their tongues, and Seto, apparently, agrees:
“I didn’t mean to cause a big ruckus about it. It wasn’t a smart PR move on my behalf, so I definitely apologize about that,” Setoguchi said
by Rhapsody in Teal on Apr 28, 2011 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions
We think Mayers and Seto shouldn’t have gone to Twitter about it, and they were wrong on the facts; so that constituted an overreaction.
I hope you can appreciate that Sharks fans coming over here and telling us not to react to Purdy’s insults at all, or that’s an overreaction (or whining), is not the same thing. I don’t know why you thought it was a good idea at all.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
I don’t mean to be rude….. but young men are giving their lives in Afghanistan and Iraq, and you guys are worrying about this stuff??
This isn’t so much rude as it is kinda dumb, because by that logic we shouldn’t be worrying about any sport at all, ever.
Gentlemen, start your less expensive, more efficient Japanese-made engines!
Battle of California
by Megalodon on Apr 28, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Really? How freaking magnanimous of you
In all honestly, if the roles were reversed and the Kings had won the series and McClellan had shaken hands with the Kings coaches but not the players? I wouldn’t have noticed. I would have been too happy that the Kings had won to care about anything except for that basic fact.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
I don’t think any of us noticed until we read about it today. I know I didn’t. I think a lot of fans have been overreacting about a lot of things in the past couple weeks — emotions run high during the playoffs.
by Rhapsody in Teal on Apr 26, 2011 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay, freaking fine
I can honestly say that if the shoe had been on the other foot, I still wouldn’t have given a damn. I would have been too happy that the Kings had won a playoff series for the first time in ages. I’d be looking ahead to the next series.
Which is what Setoguchi should have been doing instead of making himself look whiny and ignorant.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
Dustin Brown would not have used his Twitter account to bitch about it, either.
I hope everyone knows I have no intention of facing this sober.
by McSwarley on Apr 26, 2011 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t think it would have been a big deal at all if it wasn’t for the Sharks players tweeting about it. It has happened before but no one ever made a public complaint like you can easily do with twitter nowadays. I personally wouldn’t have been upset if the tables were flipped and McLellan didn’t shake the Kings players hands. I think it is right for the players to shake each others hands and for the coaches, but the coaches weren’t out there battling against the players so I don’t think it is necessary for them to go through the line. If they want to, then that is fine, but it shouldn’t be looked down on if they don’t.
In light of this and other similar posts, I might take this incident off my list of reasons to dislike Terry Murray.
Cool, man. Can you let me know when you decide for sure? I’ll need to update my spreadsheet. While you’re writing, if you could go ahead give me your opinion on the Royal Wedding, Wienerschnitzel and Fast Five. tia
by RudyKelly on Apr 27, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
I would also like his/her update on how touchy our fans are on a ten point scale. I know we can’t possibly compare to a fanbase full of even-keeled magnanimous angels— but we can aspire, right?
We’ll need ongoing, detailed reports.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
I would argue that your fanbase is very touchy – given how often you guys whined bout our announcers. :)
GO SHARKS!
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin (see profile for more info on this quote)
I would argue that your announcers are objectively awful — for a national broadcast. And don’t get me started on pterodactyls.
But the real thing I don’t get is the idea that sports fans can’t or shouldn’t vent in their own fandom sandboxes. I could tick off a laundry list of things I think Sharks fans have whined or are still whining about even now. But what is valid criticism to one is ‘whining’ to the other. So why not shrug and move on?
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Quite simply...
They are horrible and have no business being used for a nation wise broadcast. I call that a criticism, but you don’t agree with my viewpoint so therefore it is “whining.” Whatevs.
Free Oscar Moeller
by DodgerBlueBalls on Apr 28, 2011 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions
Nobody likes listening to the opposing team’s broadcasters during a playoff game. It’s annoying.
by Rhapsody in Teal on Apr 28, 2011 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
You bring up a good point. As much as I love Bob Miller and Jim Fox, I don’t believe they would have been suitable for a nation wide broadcast featuring the Kings, as well. More objectivity would be ideal.
Free Oscar Moeller
by DodgerBlueBalls on Apr 28, 2011 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree. Then again, I swear I still detect subjectivity even in the “neutral” broadcasters. There are certain teams they love (Eastern Conference, particularly the Penguins), and certain teams they don’t give two shits about (Western Conference, particularly the Pacific Division).
by Rhapsody in Teal on Apr 28, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry to keep you waiting...
I have decided for sure. This incident is off my list of reasons to hate Terry Murray.
Royal Wedding: over-hyped.
Wienerschnitzel: I’ve only had it once or twice. I’d take it or leave it.
Fast Five: The first one was shit. I can’t believe there’s a fifth. But that’s Hollywood.
…In my post above, I wasn’t trying to come off as falsely magnanimous. I was just trying to illustrate that the reason Sharks fans are jumping on Terry Murray for not shaking hands with the players is that we were already annoyed with him for whining to the media after a few games about penalties that he thought should/shouldn’t have been called. Skipping the handshakes was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. We Sharks fans probably overreacted, I admit; but, I can honestly say, once I found out he shook hands with the Sharks coaches, I, personally, backed off my criticism.
Nevertheless, I’m sorry for being rude on your boards.
by Rhapsody in Teal on Apr 28, 2011 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Kings have imo a good ways to go
After watching the Hawks tie it up w shorthander (Toews and Hossa made it) with over a minute left and then Alex Burrows scoring the two Canucks goals….
Honestly, if you look at it another way, when the Kings won their two games, the only Kings who stepped up were DD (in Game one, and that was his only really good game) and JQ who was big time.
When a goal was needed in a tight game (although tip of the cap to Lewis and Smyth last night for 3rd period goals) no King stepped up. When the Sharks needed a goal (3 OT’s – every time someone stepped up).
We have some heart and soul young players, but at the moment the only player who is looking like a potential star (only time will tell) is Cliffy.
Gonna take more than that if they want to actually Win a Stanley Cup rather than just compete in the playoffs.
that's just how I see it at the moment
You Have To Have Game Changers if you want to win the Stanley Cup. To expect four rounds of your goalie winning you the cup like JQ played in Game 5 or the 5-0 win in Detroit, I think you’re asking too much of your goalie.
The Kings need a puck distributor
They don’t have one among the centers.
Kopi- great player but does he make his teammates better?
Stoll- great faceoff man, good shot but not creating space and hitting open guys for shots.
Lewis- too young time will tell
Handzus- Good on faceoffs, great on d but not a playmaker
I saw flashes of this quality in Lokti when he was at center but was too short lived to know for sure. I hope he’s the guy but the Kings don’t have a guy like Thornton who can hold the play and find the open man….just my humble opinion.
Kopi neutralizes Thornton pretty well. He’s under-rated defensively, although that is starting to change.
Richardson couldn’t go toe-to-toe. Handzus is good defensively, but also lost a step. Lewis is fast and smart and can play well defensively — if he could get his faceoff % up, that would help a lot. The center dilemma is going to be interesting to track going forward.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Kopitar is a fantastic puck distributor
and, YES, he makes his teammates better.
Have you ever had the opportunity to watch the Slovenian national team before? They’re awful. But when Kopi plays for them, they elevate their game. This is because he’s a superstar.
The one thing he cannot do is win games singlehandedly. We don’t need him to do this because we have other pieces.
by 88fingerslukee on Apr 27, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, if you look at it another way, when the Kings won their two games, the only Kings who stepped up were DD (in Game one, and that was his only really good game) and JQ who was big time.
Doughty had the great game in game 2, but other than that had a few bad games, including game 1 and really didn’t step up.
The Kings offense wasn’t the problem this series, they scored enough goals to win every single game. McLellan said before the series he thought 3 goals would win most of the games and the Kings got 3 or more in every game except game 1. The problem was their stellar defense broke down at times in games 3-5. Quick stood on his head to win game 5 (although the D was actually better and limited most chances to the outside) but had no chance on almost every goal scored in games 3 and 4.
As for a clutch star player, it might have helped to have Kopitar who is the Kings best player. I think they have the gamechangers in place, they are just still young with Doughty and Johnson from the blueline able to change games offensively and defensively. Kopitar has shown he is a star and in the future we have Schenn coming up and Lokti. I think the Kings are set up well to compete for the Cup going forward
I think the Murray picture was doctored, just part of a conspiracy by Vancouver to make the Kings look bad.
/tinfoilhat
by Passemoilapuck on Apr 26, 2011 10:31 PM PDT reply actions
Quisp, you are good at showing the opposing side in debates and owning up when you are proven incorrect. That is very rare online.
Gentlemen, start your less expensive, more efficient Japanese-made engines!
Battle of California
Meg,
How about Jason Plank, though? There were past video links of at least 3 hall of fame coaches (Arbor, Bowman and Brooks) who did not take part in the post-playoff series handshakes, and the FtF writers chose not to update or call attention to past actions that show that Terry Murray might not have been in the wrong to join the players handshake.
I am disappointed that Jason chose to sensationalize the tweets from a couple Sharks players that have little experience in NHL Playoff traditions, and allowed the thread to become an insulting, derogatory message board for some fans to express their sweeping generalizations of all neighboring citizens of Southern California.
Free Oscar Moeller
by DodgerBlueBalls on Apr 26, 2011 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions
And Hammond has what I think should be close to the last word, if not the last word. So basically, Setoguchi was being a factually incorrect little bitch, as are all of the Sharks fans who want to gin this up into a major controversy. Apparently, my first reaction was correct, and it is not a universally accepted practice, even today, for coaches to join the handshake line.
I mean… really? Really? Your team just won a tough playoff series and you’re a pretty decent bet (at worst) to win your first Stanley Cup, and this is what you’re concerned about? Insane. Just insane.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
by DougX on Apr 27, 2011 4:58 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
an insulting, derogatory message board for some fans to express their sweeping generalizations of all neighboring citizens of Southern California.
Sounds like he’s is infringing on Battle of California territory – what an asshole!
Seriously though the whole issue is stupid and trying to make something out of it is stupid. Not to be a dick or anything but we already beat the Kings. That series is over. There’s no point in getting angry about anything that happened in it anymore, especially something so silly.
Gentlemen, start your less expensive, more efficient Japanese-made engines!
Battle of California
by Megalodon on Apr 27, 2011 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Sounds like he’s is infringing on Battle of California territory – what an asshole!
That’s the line of the week right there. Well played, sir.
Free Oscar Moeller
by DodgerBlueBalls on Apr 27, 2011 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions
In the piece I wrote this:
What makes this story relevant is not what some writer at Fear The Fin thinks. The controversy surrounding Sidney Crosby and the Detroit Red Wings in 2009 is a perfect example of that— individuals outside of the situation analyzing what it means to be a professional, what it means to have class, what it means to be a human being. Murray is justifiably heartbroken following the loss in overtime. His team had just been eliminated after playing a gutsy series. We can’t sit here eating Doritos’ on our couches and expect to understand that.
As outside members merely observing the event it’s hard for us to judge Murray for his actions. While Murray does not partake in what Gary Thorne once called “one of the great traditions” in all of sports, to assume that we are the moral authority on said tradition is disingenous at best and self-indulgent at worst.
However, what makes this story relevant is the fact that players such as Devin Setoguchi and Jamal Mayers felt strongly enough about the snub to publicly voice their issues with it moments after the elation of a series victory. One would expect that to be the last thing they would feel the need to talk about, and yet, it was something that stood out to them as a monumental decision from the Kings Head Coach. It blew off tradition. It showed a lack of sportsmanship.
It was a slap in the face.
On Twitter I wrote this:
One thing to keep in mind in midst of Murray outrage is fan reaction. Would SJ fans have shaken hands with Ducks fans after 2009 series? [link]
My point is that we need to reserve some sense of understanding for Murray in regards to our judgment of him. Can’t get all high and mighty. [link]
The players were offended (justifiably so) and that’s the story here. Hard for us to sit on our couches and say he is classless etc. [link]
The sensationalist criticism of my article is valid and true— it took one viewpoint (that of Setoguchi and Mayers) and rode that all the way through. And for that I owe you and anyone else an apology, because frankly (considering FTF was probably the first “outlet” to break this story), we were the ones who made this news. With that comes a responsibility to follow through and show both sides of the story— in that respect I failed, and in that respect Quisp obviously did not.
Personally, as I tried to make clear (and clearly didn’t), I don’t fault Murray for his actions. The story was the fact that the Sharks players (the team I cover) took exception with his actions, not my personal feelings on taking exception with his actions. I know it’s weird to think of a blogger as someone who has tried to separate his emotional feelings from a situation from “the story”, but if you read FTF, that’s the route that we have been beginning to take for some time now.
As for the comments section, working full-time has reduced my ability to police them. I hope FTF is a good place to come to for opposing fans to discuss the sport of hockey, but as many here well know, Sharks fans are not the most emotionally controlled folks. Not everyone has the controlled nature of a guy like Meg. Hence the hate speech. Again, I’m sorry, but it’s essentially become out of my control.
Anyways, just figured I’d toss my two cents in. Thanks for reading at least, both this obscenely long comment as well as Fear The Fin.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Plank,
Thanks for taking a moment to come on over and share your perspective. I believe my poorly articulated problem with your piece was that, as you say, it takes Seto and Mayers’s viewpoints and rides them the whole way through. Yours is a Sharks-centric blog and that is to be expected. My disappointment comes from the fact that nowhere in the piece does it mention that it is not always the norm for the coach to participate series ending players handshakes. I believe that the article’s lack of context and past precedent made it easy for some of the FtF commentators to get worked up into a frenzy of anti-LA Kings generalizations and Northern California Jingoism, while disparaging or ignoring anyone in the comments who tried to point out the Terry Murray’s actions might actually have been the norm as opposed to the exception.
So please accept my apology for the poorly articulated way I stated my criticism, thank you for taking a moment to share your perspective, and best of luck to the SJ Sharks and the Fear the Fin blog in the future.
Free Oscar Moeller
by DodgerBlueBalls on Apr 27, 2011 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope FTF is a good place to come to for opposing fans to discuss the sport of hockey.
Thanks for your post. Really appreciated and enjoyed reading your posts throughout the series. Not to make this personal but maybe some of your moderators should stray away from elevating the emotional tone of the thread comments by doing things such as posting “death threat” letters and threatening to ban those with opposing viewpoints for having an “attitude”. Again thanks for this comment and I’m rooting for the Sharks the rest of the way. Go California hockey!
Quite possibly the only LA Kings fan living in Brooklyn, New York.
And really, knowing Terry Murray, does anyone think of him as a guy who would not shake hands because of emotions?
For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.
That's kind of the funny part to me.
If these Sharks fans were to read recaps and watch all the post-game vids from the last 3 years (like we have) while TM has been at the helm, they’d actually see how much TM always has, frankly, put San Jose on an ABSOLUTE pedestal.
Snippets:
“… the premiere team in the NHL…”
“…arguably the top line in the league…”
“…such great overall depth… it has everything to do with depth, and they’re a great hockey team.”
“…To me, they look that good. They are a tough team for any team to face.”
“…They’re a better team than we are… they’re probably playing the best hockey in the NHL.”
“…the most talented team in the National Hockey League.”
Ahhhh, but no Shark fans – he’s a “no class douche” who disrespects every player and every tradition. Whatever.
Looking forward to watching the best teams win the next rounds.
by OneTimer. on Apr 27, 2011 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Murray probably had to use the john.
Shook hands with the coaches at the bench and went straight for the locker room. It was OT after all.
McKenzie’s point about it not being absolutely necessary still holds. I doubt TM only shook hands with the coaches to pointed snub them, but Sharks players taking this to Twitter is just bizarre. Maybe, just maybe, their wounded hearts shall go on.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
I made something for you. All of you.
Please, feel free to use this handy screencap of Couture conversing with Bob McKenzie via Twitter.
I hope everyone knows I have no intention of facing this sober.
Did Logan Couture read this blog post?!
Quite possibly the only LA Kings fan living in Brooklyn, New York.
If you mention “Judson Couture” enough there’s an excellent chance his little brother will read it.
Gentlemen, start your less expensive, more efficient Japanese-made engines!
Battle of California
This is great. Like the internet version of playing “Bloody Mary.”
JUDSON COUTURE JUDSON COUTURE JUDSON COUTURE
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
by Niesy on Apr 27, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
No you fool!
Gentlemen, start your less expensive, more efficient Japanese-made engines!
Battle of California
and for those Still interested
I saw no sign whatsoever of Dan Bylsma queing up to shake hands with the TBL players after the Gm 7 loss. He shook hands w Guy wahts his name, and the other coaches.
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