Player grades are silly, but here they are anyway
by Quisp on May 12, 2011 1:09 PM PDT
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PrintReport cards: Who graded the best? " LA Kings Insider
The Kings player evaluations for 2010-11 are complete, and each of the polls had well over 1,000 votes, with several topping 2,000, so that’s an excellent sample size. How did the grades come out? [...]
A: Jonathan Quick, Anze Kopitar, Justin Williams, Willie Mitchell, Kyle Clifford.
Agreed.
- I'd give Martinez an A relative to expectations.
- I'd give Scuderi an A because he was playing with Johnson.
- I'd give Greene a B because of his playoff penalties.
B: Jarret Stoll, Ryan Smyth, Jonathan Bernier, Jack Johnson, Brad Richardson, Drew Doughty, Andrei Loktionov, Michal Handzus, Trevor Lewis, Brayden Schenn, Davis Drewiske.
- Stoll had a career year. A.
- Ryan Smyth scored 20+ goals and got tired, then got a second wind. A-.
- Jonathan Bernier. C, to start the season. B, in the middle. A, after the break. So, yes, B, on average.
- Jack Johnson, A to start, B to finish...I'd go with B+/A-.
- Doughty, I would give him an A-. Played against significantly tougher opponents while playing with significantly weaker teammates. Played about half of every game.
- Andrei Loktionov, a B on the wing, and A at center...B+/A-.
- Michal Handzus...relied on to do just about everything, especially after Kopitar was hurt. Kings almost won that series. Yeah, his numbers dipped a little. And he missed Frolov. B+.
- Trevor Lewis gets an A. No lower than an A-. Progressed all season and peaked in the playoffs.
- Brayden Schenn gets an I.
- Drewiske gets a C for not playing as well as last year.
C+: Wayne Simmonds, Oscar Moller, Jake Muzzin, Kevin Westgarth.
C: Dwight King, Scott Parse, John Zeiler, Alexei Ponikarovsky, Peter Harrold.
F: Dustin Penner.
This is where it gets annoying.
- Simmonds and Ponikarovsky. Both were relied upon for much tougher defensive assignments, against the toughest opponents, with more defensive zone starts, with weaker teammates, and -- SHOCKINGLY -- their offensive numbers plummeted. Sort of like Frolov under Terry Murray. See a pattern? I give them both an A for defense and a B for offense, though really it's not their fault. B+, B+.
- Oscar Moller, a C+? My question would be, why is Oscar Moller, who is supposedly (according to people who would give him a low grade) a problem defensively, getting tougher defensive assignments than Kopitar, who is supposedly our best defensive forward now? Could it be that Murray gave Kopitar and Brown easier shifts all year, while saddling the bottom six with the hard d minutes? (and then complains about them not scoring...)
- Jake Muzzin was great and then got overwhelmed a bit. Given that pretty much no-one (but me) thought he would make the team, and given that he looked excellent for a few games, I would give him an A with a little bit of B at the end there. B+.
- Parse had great numbers for his five games before the surgery. He gets an Incomplete, for obvious reasons.
- Dwight King...what was he supposed to do? Under the circumstances, I give him a B.
- Peter Harrold played great every other month when they dusted him off to play. It's not his fault he's scratched every game. He stayed prepared and didn't hurt us. A.
- Penner. Incomplete. But if I have to pick a letter, I would give him a A for the first few games, a B- in the middle when his line fell apart, and a B- in the playoffs for not putting the team on his shoulders. But, seriously, I don't think dropping out of the sky into Terry Murrayland is easy.
- Zeiler. He did what was asked of him for a handful of games. A.
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Someone yesterday on LAKI under DL’s thread mentioned how he should try to get Jason Spezza (w his 7M a year contract). Spezza was just the last guy back on a Canada PP and instead of taking the Russian’s body (which he was perfectly positioned to do) he took a feeble swipe at the puck. Missed it. Break away. Short handed goal.
Commentators called him out big time.
That’s what you want for the Kings? You can have him….. for the bargain price of 7M a year.
Bill Stoneman used to be very conservative w the Angels, but they won a world series. I prefer a GM who leans to the conservative side.
Not sure about this
How can virtually every player get an A/A-/B+ with the team somewhat regressing this year? Or stalling at the least. The roller coaster ride seems like a regression to me, and A’s across the board sounds generous.
depends on what grade you give the coach.
Wait till this year.
by Quisp on May 12, 2011 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Okay then...
What grade do YOU give the coach?
I give him an A for the 98 points and a D for the giant slump, the 4-0 meltdown in game three and the two collapses in game four
which averages using my secret weighted system to a C.
Wait till this year.
Everyone gets B’s or A’s except Drewiske with the lone C? Come on. You may want to give this another go after a couple of cocktails.
Not to mention that, though I haven’t set foot in a classroom in a loooooong time, a C would be average on a curve. Hard to believe ours was loaded with above average players. Maybe makes sense to use a pass / no pass scale instead. Good luck with Penner on that one.
by marlin987123 on May 12, 2011 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
C might be average, but this is why player grades are silly. the players aren't taking the same classes.
Wait till this year.
by Quisp on May 12, 2011 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, Quisp, if only all my teachers had been as generous with their grades as you are here.
by King of Saskatchewan on May 12, 2011 1:53 PM PDT reply actions
the players get graded based on their success in completing the assigned coursework.
i also have the power in this exercise to intervene if i feel the teacher is making unreasonable demands or giving contradictory instructions.
Wait till this year.
I agree except for Simmonds
He dissapeared for stretches this season…no way I grade him as high as you did but I think he was about right in the fans poll.
Agreed. I don’t think Simmonds’s problem was difficult competition. He just didn’t have the same semi-explosive speed that he showed last season. He picked it up in the playoffs, but I don’t think that redeemed him for the rest of the season.
"After months of reading other people’s catchy sigs (like yours), I decided I needed one, too." -- DougX
by VoluminousTuna on May 12, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Far too kind there Quisp
You have to rate players vs. expectations and salary. I liked Poni’s game, but not for $3.2M, If he was on the roster at half that I’d say good value and give him a B+, at the cost he incurred C or C-. Doughty B at best.
Ultimately the goal is winning the Cup and where the Kings are they need to progress to that point. A lot of people were saying (myself included) after the 2009-2010 season the Kings were about 2 years away from being a legit contender. Well after this year can we say they are next year? I don’t know. Potentially yes, but based on improvement or regression 2010-11 vs. the season previous… I don’t know. Overall the team and season get a C+. I EXPECT the Kings to be a playoff team. I had hoped they’d have secured a higher seed (yeah I know they easily could have finished 4th…) and made some noise in the playoffs. Nashvillle can rightfully claim progress, can the Kings?
you can't grade players based on salary
if you do that, kopitar gets a C, Handzus gets a C, Stoll gets a B+, Smyth gets a D, Greene gets a C, Brown gets a B-, Williams gets an A-, Quick gets an A+, Bernier gets a B+, Clifford A+, Lewis A+, Simmonds B+, Johnson C+, Doughty A (he’s not getting bonuses, so he’s cheap), Martinez A+, Westgarth B+, etc
Wait till this year.
My Grades
A: Jonathan Quick, Anze Kopitar, Justin Williams, Willie Mitchell, Kyle Clifford.
Kopitar gets a B+ because of his long streaks without scoring. Yes, he has improved defensively but scoring 2 goals in 20 games does not get you an A when you’re making $6 million a year.
Quick also gets a B+ because he was great in the shootouts but he is still having too much trouble handling the puck and giving up soft goals because of it.
Williams gets a B+ because while he started out red hot he cooled way down by the All Star Break.
Willie Mitchell and Kyle Clifford both get an A.
B+: Alec Martinez, Rob Scuderi, Dustin Brown, Matt Greene.
Martinez gets an A because he was not expected to even be on the team after his dreadful performance early in 2009-10 but when he got recalled he was solid in his role.
Scuderi also gets an A. He is the best defensive defenseman the team has and you never have to worry about him.
Brown gets a C, exactly what Terry Murray seems to think he should have. It’s right there on his chest after all. Honestly, his leadership has been called into question, he doesn’t score particularly well, he tries to do too much all the time, neglecting his more talented teammates in the process, and he is not exactly the world’s best defender either. He’d be on the third line at best of any of the teams remaining in the playoffs.
Greene gets a D because of his untimely penalties in the playoffs. I probably would have gone B- for him until the playoffs at which point one had to wonder which team was paying his salary!
B: Jarret Stoll, Ryan Smyth, Jonathan Bernier, Jack Johnson, Brad Richardson, Drew Doughty, Andrei Loktionov, Michal Handzus, Trevor Lewis, Brayden Schenn, Davis Drewiske.
Stoll gets an A for his ability to win face-offs and score in the shootouts. How many Kings wins were because of his big time shootout scoring? Without Jaret Stoll the Kings would not have made the playoffs, and I think the only other players you can say that about are Kopitar (see, end of season and playoffs for evidence) and maybe Quick though I think Bernier would have gotten them there too as the starter. Yes, I think shootouts are stupid, but since they got the Kings points this season Stoll was key.
Smyth gets an A- because he was great early and even when he wasn’t producing offensively in the second half you can tell he is providing some intangible to the team.
Bernier gets a B+ because he did well enough in the backup role. Sure, he started out slow, but in the second half he was fantastic after he got used to the role.
Johnson gets a B- because while he started out great and was a solid set-up man on the power play, his play on the defensive side of the puck still needs work. And in the second half of the season his scoring pretty muhc evaporated. His play in the playoffs brings him back up from the C+ I was leaning toward here.
Richardon gets a B+ for being a solid scrappy player who is great in the bottom 6 and actually provided some good spark when moved onto Kopitar’s line. In the playoffs, he was great.
Doughty gets a B. Like Brown, he frequently looks like he is trying to do too much. He is clearly way more talented than Brown and I have a feeling that as he gets older and learns the ins and outs of the league a little better those moves wil work with more regularity than they do now so I don’t want him to stop. But the fact remains he did not bring the offense this season the way he did last year and his game did appear to regress slightly.
Loktionov gets a B. He is young and did what was asked of him. We saw flashes of brilliance and I’m certain that with a full time role next season he will do even better.
Handzus gets a B. He is still solid defensively but he has clearly lost a step. He had games where he would win no face-offs at all and he can’t be counted on to score anymore. I’m happy he was with the Kings and feel that he provided a lot but I’m ready to see him move on.
Lewis gets an A. He is all ready a very solid penalty killer and his defensive game is what makes Handzus expendable this summer. It’s great that he evolved his game to become an NHL player.
Schenn does not get a grade because he didn’t play enough. It’s stupid to grade someone who played 8 games and was never really given a chance to make the team.
Drewiske gets a D because he was not good when he was on the ice and ended up spending the season in the press box. He won’t be around next season.
C+: Wayne Simmonds, Oscar Moller, Jake Muzzin, Kevin Westgarth.
C: Dwight King, Scott Parse, John Zeiler, Alexei Ponikarovsky, Peter Harrold.
F: Dustin Penner.
Simmonds gets a B because he played against tougher opponents and did a solid job defensively and like Richardson looked good on the top line in short spurts.
Moller didn’t play enough to get a grade.
Zeiler didn’t play enough to get a grade.
Ponikarovsky gets a C. Yeah, he played on the line with Zus and Simmonds and saw tougher opponents, but it’s not like he never got offensive opportunities. He just didn’t cash any of them in.
Muzzin gets a B. He was okay when he was in the lineup. I feel like he should get an I for not having played enough though.
Westgarth gets a B. He does his job. The question is just whether that job is actually useful in today’s NHL.
Parse didn’t play enough to get a grade. The fact that he is up for a grade on LA Kings Insider is another reason I think that blog is stupid. He played 5 games.
King- see Parse, Scott.
Harrold- see, Parse, Scott.
Penner gets a B. When Kopitar and Williams were his linemates he looked really really good, even playing in a new more rigorous system than he was used to in Edmonton. Then both of his linemates got hurt and he was asked to play a role he is not accustomed to. He needs a playmaker and when Kopitar was hurt the Kings no longer had one, so what did anyone expect. Anyone who gives him an F is stupid and pisses me off.
I’d bump Westgarth’s grade up to a B+, maybe even an A- because of his playoff performance where he really played his best when it mattered most.
I don’t really have a problem with Hammond putting all the players up because really it is evaluations, the grades are just for commenters to give their feedback too. As for his evaluations, I don’t mind having guys that even just played a game or two because he talks about how they did in the AHL or juniors or wherever they played as well and gives a bit of a going forward what does it look like for them.
He’d be on the third line at best of any of the teams remaining in the playoffs.
Brown would arguably be the best right winger on the Bruins (depending on how you feel about Nathan Horton), the 2nd best on the Lightning, the 2nd best on the Canucks, and the 2nd best on the Sharks.
i respect...
that you love Brown….. that being said….. Setoguchi is better, Purcell is an even wash, the second and third line right wingers for boston are a wash, but for the Canucks…. ill give you that one
"Off the floor and on the Board!!!!"- Kariya
by Screw the NYBankees on May 13, 2011 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t love Brown but I like him and I understand his value. He’s better than Devin Setoguchi because Brown scores more goals while also hitting more, drawing more penalties, passing better and being better defensively. There’s not really a single thing Setoguchi does better than Brown other than maybe shooting off the rush. Brown’s better than Purcell for the same reasons (although Purcell’s a better passer). Mark Recchi is Boston’s 2nd line right winger and, I mean, if you don’t think Brown is better than Mark Recchi then I don’t know what to say.
Setoguchi....
is clutch when he needs to be…. and i hate the sharks…. Brown is far and away my least favorite king ( for reasons i’ll leave out on this blog) so i may be biased but Purcell is a better team player in my book… Recchi in all fairness is just a tad bit slower but i call it a wash because he has the mental aspects of the game under control unlike Brown. just my opinion though
"Off the floor and on the Board!!!!"- Kariya
by Screw the NYBankees on May 13, 2011 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
yea....
actually they are… show me evidence of anything i said being wrong
"Off the floor and on the Board!!!!"- Kariya
by Screw the NYBankees on May 13, 2011 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
-Brown’s OK but Setoguchi is more clutch and also breathes fire so I give him the edge.
-What? No he doesn’t.
-Prove it!
by RudyKelly on May 13, 2011 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
have you...
been watching the Sharks play _
"Off the floor and on the Board!!!!"- Kariya
by Screw the NYBankees on May 17, 2011 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions
and as for DL
this is the only website where I feel secure enough to say ‘I sure am glad we drafted Thomas Hickey instead of Logan Couture’.
I’m angry. Do you see that guy in the playoffs? Oh well, who needs scoring to win in the playoffs anyway.
I don’t fault GMs when their philosophy is to build from the Net out and then they draft a Defenseman instead of a Center. It’s not his philosophy. He would have never gone for a center at that moment so I’m fine with the pick given the circumstances.
Teubert over Myers? yeah that sucked. You can also argue that DL would have never drafted Schenn a couple of drafts later if he had gotten Couture.
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by BoulderDodger on May 12, 2011 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Willie Mitchell is a B, for missing some games
And Schenn is an A for awesome, for playing all those games in LA, Manchester, Buffalo, Brandon, Saskatoon and back to Manchester…
"If you're looking in my general direction, you're looking the wrong way."
Barca Blaugranes
You consider this a career year for Stoll even though he scored 22G 46A – 68 points in 05-06, Quisp? Are there aspects of his game you feel compensates for the discrepancy in points?
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by Great Ice-Pectations on May 12, 2011 11:34 PM PDT reply actions
His shootout awesomeness…
"If you're looking in my general direction, you're looking the wrong way."
Barca Blaugranes
Certainly not to be discounted.
www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on May 12, 2011 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Plus he’s the best faceoff guy for the Kings… Dunno about stats but seems like it…
"If you're looking in my general direction, you're looking the wrong way."
Barca Blaugranes
He was definitely a go to guy on faceoffs, I guess I just would be hesitant to call it a career year. Maybe it’s the pessimist in me too, but as good as 9 for 10 on the shootout or whatever it was, I would rather Stoll put more in the net in regulation so as to help avoid going to the shootout. I would love it if the Kings could win more in regulation and avoid the shootout next season. Of course Stoll is not the only person culpable for that, but I digress…
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by Great Ice-Pectations on May 12, 2011 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I give them all an F. We didn’t win the Cup.
by m_and_m on May 13, 2011 8:05 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I guess I grade a little harder than most, but here’s mine:
Only A I’m given is to Martinez as he exceeded any expectations I had of him.
Scuderi and Quick get an A-, Quick and A+ in SO
Mitchell, Clifford, Stoll, and Lewis get B+, but Lewis was an A- after AS Break, and Stoll an A+ in the SO
Williams, Kopi, Bernier, Richardson, and Zus get a B
Brown, Greene, Johnson, and Doughty get a B-
Smyth, Moeller, and Westgarth get C+
Penner, Poni, and Simmonds get C
The rest don’t get a grade for not playing enough
My biggest disappoint on the team for me was Simmonds, it would be easier to trade Brown if I felt he could truly replace him on the ice, but not sure he can.
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