I remember the last time the Bruins won the cup
by Quisp on Jun 15, 2011 7:50 PM PDT
in History
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I watched the game on NBC, on a 6" black-and-white TV. As soon as the final horn went -- and I mean within about five seconds -- the local affiliate cut away for the local 11 o'clock news. Didn't even get to see the cup.
The last Bruin game seven I cared about was the OT loss after the infamous two-many-men penalty. 1978? 1979?
Congratulations, Bruins.
I'm looking forward to Jim Rome tomorrow.
I'm reminded of the classic Onion headline from a couple of years ago, after the Pats' Super Bowl loss: "PATRIOTS PERFECT SEASON STILL PERFECT TO REST OF NATION."
Nine days to the draft.
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Quisp - more thoughts on drafting and structure of Kings forwards
Watching this series (and Brad Marchard in particular) it really made me think (rethink?) the organizational approach to the teams drafting of forwards. It seems as though they’ve gone for either gritty tough forwards w somewhat limited upside (we’ll see if Clifford turns into a 20-25 goal scorer but seems more realistically a 3rd line player with possible 2nd line upside if he develops). That or they go for either smaller players or strictly offensively oriented players in the later rounds. Time will tell how Toffoli and/or Vey pan out.
Someone pointed out on LAKI the other day that DL selected Trevor Lewis well ahead of where Giroux was selected. It Really makes me wonder what they’re looking at. If they want to even dream of a Stanley Cup it’s gonna take some guys who bring a total package of skill and speed with some grit to the party. I KNOW it’s not easy to find them, but they’re out there. Again ….. see, Ryan Kesler, Brad Marchard, Claude Giroux (maybe not lots of grit but speed and creativity for sure), Brendan Morrow, Patrick Sharp was drafted 95th overall, Marchard was drafted 71st overall.
For me it’s a paradox….. DL has done a very good job in terms of drafting, but if you want to win a Stanley Cup you’ve gotta find a way to fill in the gaps and it’s gonna be another two to three years minimum before guys like Toffoli and Vey will make the team and we get an idea if it’s paying off or not.
correction
when I said limited upside I meant limited Offensive upside…. should have previewed this first
Concentrating on defensemen is one problem. Trying to see 5 years ahead, and forseeing a depth issue is fine, but 5 years later, the one thing he didn’t count on was a log jam on top end defensemen, and a shortage of top end wingers with size. Hopefully with all the boxes filled on D, and grinder types, the Kings will concentrate more on top end wingers.
Another was taking the best available. The scouting staff ranks who they feel is the best available, and most valuable at the time of their pick. It’s not an exact science, but you can clearly see where they place value when it comes to rating top end wingers, outside the first round. They draft smaller and faster, but then won’t package or use these assets to aquire bigger, stronger, top end talent. So even though they’re not drafting the ideal player, they’re not using the ones they dratfted (who are too small), as currancy either.
No doubt some of the guys they’ve drafted (some of whom you mentioned, are) top end guys with potential, but drafting defensemen with every first round is going to leave holes in the areas you neglect, and this draft we don’t even have a first.
well, there's a flaw in your logic
which is that you’re looking only at the players who panned out. If you look at the second half of the first round, and just pick one of those names randomly, you’ve got about a 2:3 chance of picking someone who hasn’t worked out (yet) at all. A majority of the picks in this draft have not played an NHL game yet. The choice is not between Lewis, Kesler, Marchand, Giroux, Morrow or Sharp, it’s between those guys and a bunch of nothing. we could have picked Riku Helenius. Well, no we couldn’t, because he went at 15.
Wait till this year.
Your absolutely right there. It is really a roll of the dice in a sense. You can learn as much as possible about the players, read all the stats, have meetings, but in the end it is just your best guess. Only a handful actually become rockstars.
I really don’t see what the Kings have to regret about Lombardi’s draft record. I count 7 players who have made notable contributions at the NHL level (with the best probably yet to come): Clifford, Doughty, Simmonds, Moller, Martinez, Lewis and Bernier. That’s 1/3 of a team already. Then you add in 2 kids who are poised to make notable contributions next season: Loktionov and Schenn. That makes half a team.
And that doesn’t even count the kids who have done well enough at the AHL level to merit a chance at the big show, but there’s just no room for them: Voynov, Hickey, Holloway, King.
What I see is that Lombardi has a record of making sound bets with his high picks (Doughty and Schenn both looking like future stars, with Hickey set back by bad luck and Teubert not quite panning out, but still tradeable) and a unusually strong record of finding useful players with 2nd and mid-round picks. 4th rounders like Martinez usually never see the light of day.
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
I gree with you.
I think the Kings have done a remarkable job, and Dean has done more with 1/2 the draft picks that Taylor (who I did like) used. There is a little too much concentration on defense. I was shocked at Hickey being taken, and felt we should of taken a scoring winger, and Forbort is a good project and worthwhile for sure, but I was still shocked that we took a defenseman there also. I don’t think I’m alone here, and I think a lot of people hindsight, or ahead of time, felt that a top end defenseman was our particular need.
I see how you can say in retrospect that the Kings drafted too many defensemen early on. But given the importance placed on ‘building from the back end’ and the fact that even 1st Rounders don’t always work out, and I can see why it happened. It also kind of explains why Lombardi used a 1st Rounder on Bernier when Quick was already a legit prospect.
But another way to look at it is not so much that the Kings drafted too many defensemen, but that a surprising number of them turned out to be legit prospects.
I have to admit, though, I was surprised by using last year’s top pick to get Forbort. I did think Dean would go for a forward. I’m not sure, but I’m guessing it was a case of drafting the best available player, knowing that if you can’t use him, at least he has the best chance to become an asset with trade value.
And it’s not as if Dean has been mindlessly stockpiling defensemen with his high picks. He did use a pick in ’06 on Lewis, and the 4th overall in ’09 on Schenn, who is already a blue-chip forward prospect.
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
point taken
I Did think of that but of course it’s easier to look at what a team got right than the other ones (like the Kings) who missed a Giroux or a Marchand. That said, I do feel that for the Kings to seriously have a go at the Cup, either one of the guys (forwards) already in the system, or someone else is gonna have to come up with the goods. But I suppose that’s obvious. Even watching the Kings Roundtable pieces on youtube, the guys were all in agreement that as they’re structured now, the team isn’t solid enough to win a Cup….. and after watching Krejci, Bergeron and Marchand upfront (to say nothing of Nathan Horton) I’m inclined to agree.
But back to your point Quisp, yes of course if I’m being honest with myself, you’re clearly correct in what you say. I TRY to be reasonable in my assessments as you probably know by now reading my posts, and to not get into ‘extremes’ as some posters elsewhere might do…. but I don’t always succeed :-)
To my mind, the B’s dominated the Finals about as much as it is possible to dominate a best-of-7 series that went to 7 games. They barely lost 3 games on the road, and they won the other 4 in routs. Very impressive, and congrats to them. They earned the Cup in a big way.
So much for the 2010-11 Canucks being one of the great teams of all time, eh?
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
To be fair, they lost their 2 most important defensive players: Dan Hamhuis and Manny Malhotra. Both played really tough minutes during the regular season and losing them had a trickle-down effect that hamstrung guys like Alex Edler and Ryan Kesler. I’m glad the Bruins won but I don’t know if the Bruins would win again if they played another series.
Of course, the Bruins didn’t have their best center and their best winger after game 3 so…. I don’t know.
Well, I was really just setting up that spiteful cheap shot at a certain Canucks SBNation blogger who jumped all over Quisp for having the temerity to say that when Heidi Androl called this season’s Canucks an all-time great team, she showed a lack of historical perspective.
I understand that the Canucks were hobbled (Kesler apparently being very banged up), but losing Horton should have had a much worse effect on Boston’s offense than it did. So credit them for patching up their holes better than Vancouver.
Plus, Tim Thomas is one of those goalies who can carry a team on his back when he gets hot, as he was in this series. In the playoffs, if you have a goalie who can catch fire like that, you always have a chance. Luongo… well, he was Luongo.
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
Didn't Mean To Sperg
I love the contrast between Luongo and Thomas. One’s pretty much the prototypical butterfly goaltender and the other is a beer league goalie on steroids.* I’m really, really happy for Thomas. I bet Kelly Hrudey is too.
*He’s not actually on steroids. Or at least, not good ones.
My favorite commentary on the entire series
JonathanQuick32
Congratulations to Timmy Thomas and the Boston Bruins, gotta love karma
Heh.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
To be fairer…
The Bruins didn’t have Savard for the entire playoffs and he is probably their best offensive player.
Kesler had groin and a hip flexor injury, too, though — Edler was playing with broken fingers, etc. I’m still not sure that Henrik was 100%.
Boston had a lot to overcome between Hornton and Savard. But injury luck also felled key players for Pittsburgh and Philly, who should have made the Bruins’ path to the Finals more difficult. Relative to other contenders, they did all right. (Not that this diminishes their achievement whatsoever, since they pulled together and had the depth/resiliency to win the toughest prize in sport; what happens to your foes before you meet them is just random.)
I think Vancouver shows that you can do everything right to build a frighteningly stacked team, and it still might not be enough. You need a dose of good fortune as well. All the more reasons to try and build a team that gets multiple kicks at the can.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
No one is a 100% in the Cup Finals. I don’t think Vancouver had the mental toughness needed to win the Cup. Sedin hardly strikes me as a great leader, Luongo’s confidence is more up and down than a yo-yo, and incidents like the Burrows’ bite and Rome’s hit on Horton show a lack of discipline and maturity.
They had had 2-0 leads on Chicago, San Jose, and Boston. Had they finished off Chicago instead of going through a grueling seven game series to open the playoffs, they might have had more in the tank against Boston. Although I agree that it does take a luck to win the Cup, character goes a long way too. Having those veterans like Recchi and Thomas really made a difference IMO.
But injury luck also felled key players for Pittsburgh and Philly, who should have made the Bruins’ path to the Finals more difficult. Relative to other contenders, they did all right.
It’s true. Every team has injuries. If Kopitar is in for LA, that likely makes Vancouver’s road to the Finals more difficult. Same goes for Zetterberg in Detroit, who missed the early going of the playoffs, and I’m willing to bet was not 100% even by the time he came back.
But that’s playoff hockey. You just have to deal with it.
Injuries can never be an excuse. The Avalanche lost the best hockey player in the world at that time in 2001 (Forsberg) against the Kings but still went on to win the Cup. That same year, the Red Wings were missing Yzerman and Shanahan when they blew their 2-0 lead against the Kings, but you never heard them bitching and moaning about the guys they didn’t have.
I was just trying to make the point that every team has injuries and you just deal with it and play.
Agreed
This morning, I saw where a commenter on Nucks Misconduct (of all places) observe that the only reason we don’t (yet) know what secret injuries may have impeded Boston is that they were too busy celebrating to talk about it, and probably didn’t care by that point.
The toll of playing a full season + 4 rounds of playoffs may not distribute evenly, but no one gets through the playoff tournament unscathed, and both teams in the Final are going to be banged up. The appearance of inequality has a lot to do with who talks the most about it.
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
Injuries can never be an excuse.
Making excuses is not really my point, though. Injuries hit some teams more than others. It’s just reality. Saying it shouldn’t have any affect for the Pens to lose Crosby and Malkin is great, and a noble idea, but I don’t know how to make that true.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Noteworthy post here.
Boston was fortunate to be relatively healthier in the finals. Savard? he played a whopping 25 games, and Boston had more than enough time to adjust to his loss, before the playoffs were even a thought (66 games in 2 years, and 7 playoff games “last year”. I’d say they’ve been built around the fact that he’s not in the line up). So the only real injury that Boston had to overcome was Horton.
Vancouver by comparison had way more key injuries. Boston deserved everything they got this post season, but sometimes luck plays a part in how healthy you are when your competing.
In retrospect, it only took 2 key injuries to derail the Kings post season.
So this means we have to put up with VAN dominating again next season
I was hoping them winning it would take their edge off…
Вино́ вину́ твори́т.
Глаза -- зеркало души.
Barca Blaugranes- SB Nation's FC Barcelona blog
From a guy living in Shanghai and didn't see a minute of the finals,
two straight-up questions: Why did Boston win, and how did they shut down the Sedin line?
Thoughts on the Finals:
1. Bruins won with a mix of stellar goaltending, a commitment to defense, and scoring up and down the line-up.
2. I wonder if the hordes of Vancouver fans at Kings games will be any less obnoxious.
3. What is more depressing to Canuck fans, the fact that they lost or the fact that Luongo is signed for 11 more years?
2. I wonder if the hordes of Vancouver fans at Kings games will be any less obnoxious.
I think there’s a hefty chance they might re-think draping Gretzky’s statue with the Canadian flag and making such a big deal over a single regular-season win.
Maaaybe. :)
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Thoughts on the Finals:
1): It’s over—yeah!
2): I’ve been waiting for 2011-2012 ever since DD was drafted/Know this will be a Princely season in the Kingdom;
3): The Kings can handle both Vancouver and Boston, next season/The sky’s the limit!
Anyone remember Luongo crying after beating CHI in Game 7? And then saying it was just as big as winning the gold medal?
Dear Roberto:
Chicago is probably the best 8-seed in NHL History, they were the defending champions, they eliminated you two years in a row, and you did almost blow a 3-0 series lead… but all you really did was get out of the 1st round. As soon as I saw those tears I knew there was know way you were leading VAN to a cup.
Toughen up, chum. You wanna cup, you’ve gotta be made of stronger mettle than that (see: Tim Thomas’ road to the NHL for more.)
-DD99
It feels weird to know I was walking around the streets of Vancouver June 1st, in a totally different atmosphere, and now this has happened. I usually go there for my vacations. I spent far too much time last night staying up to watch CBC’s coverage of the riots. Very disturbing and sad.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
In 1992, I was at a meeting (and away from home) when the now-famous LA riots broke out and everyone in Los Angeles was essentially let out of work at the same time (around lunch, as I recall). Traffic was so bad I was not able to get home for four days.
I left my car in a restaurant parking lot and went to a friend’s house in the hills, from which we watched the several dozen fires burn all across the city, while watching the same fires on TV, with the news helicopters flying right overhead, taking the pictures we were watching on TV. I finally got back to my car and tried to get home, which was normally about a ten minute drive, but took a few hours due to police and military road-closures. On the way home, I had to stop for a tank driving down Beverly Boulevard. The National Guard had taken over the Beverly Center as its base of operations. By the time I got home, two city blocks worth of shops I went to all the time were burnt to the ground. I lived in a duplex and my neighbor - who was a bit of a shut-in who I think was on the lam from her ex-husband - was sitting on the front porch in a rocking chair with a shot-gun, which she leveled at me until she realized who I was. She was mostly happy to see me because I had a bag of food which I brought from a store near my friends house. Our local grocery (Ralphs, Pico and Fairfax) had been torched.
It didn’t take long for all those destroyed businesses to be replaced by (usually different) businesses. They’re mostly Starbucks and Subways now. Of course, the 90s were pretty healthy financially, so it was maybe easier to rebuild.
Wait till this year.
Haunting.
I remember being glued to the television, but I was in HB. It still seemed surreal, like it wasn’t actually happening.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
is hb hermosa beach?
yeah, i think that surreal feeling is the beginning of the brain’s reaction to trauma. and i don’t think it helps that it’s all televised. it’s disorienting.
Wait till this year.
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