Ah, the old "two minutes for taunting the biter"
by Quisp on Jun 7, 2011 12:51 PM PDT
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Tired of taunting? So is the NHL; Stiff penalties to come for future finger wagging | ProHockeyTalk
While there’s already been an insane amount of things to take away from the Stanley Cup finals, one of the more unique and silly things we’re going to remember is the taunting. It started when Alex Burrows got away with biting Patrice Bergeron in Game 1. That was followed up by Maxim Lapierre taunting Bergeron by holding his gloved hand in his face daring him to take a bite. Not to be outdone, Milan Lucic got a bit of revenge on Burrows himself by holding up his bare fingers in his face during a scrum daring the biter to take another shot. When you add those things up and tack on the uncharacteristic taunting from Mark Recchi after scoring last night, you’ve got yourself a good old fashioned taunt-fest. If you’ve grown tired of these things though, you’ll be happy to know that future instances will be treated harshly. ESPN’s Pierre LeBrun found out from NHL VP of Hockey Operations Mike Murphy that officials will be instructed to give out a two minute penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct and assessed a ten-minute misconduct on top of that for any future instances of finger wagging in a scrum.
I don't know. Taunting seems like a perfectly appropriate response in this case. If the league doesn't want players to respond to unpunished biting incidents, they should try punishing the biting incidents in the first place. Sticking your fingers in the vicinity of a biter's face is no different than sticking your face in someone's face and saying, "go ahead, drop your gloves, I dare you."
Actually, come to think of it, without the context of the original biting, the taunting is more weird than unsportsmanlike. In context, it's hilarious.
I guess my point is, Alexandre Burrows' behavior seems uniquely taunt-worthy.
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I totally DISagree with this new “rule”. It should be the coaches job to keep his team disciplined and any deviation from discipline (at least in the form that it has taken) is incredibly entertaining and good for the league. This whole finger biting thing is the stuff that gets headlines in non-hockey sporting sites, etc.
Let the refs decide if it’s unsportsmanlike and let the coaches set the discipline. If the guy is waving his finger in Burrows face, big whoop. If he tries to jam his fingers in his mouth, fine, penalty. I love hockey, but sometimes the super respectful nature of hockey culture sucks the fun out of it.
To me, this is in the realm of fair game. It’s no Avery-Simulated-Sex-Act, nor is it Sloppy-Seconds-Gate.
Heck, maybe the league just doesn’t want to be reminded they biffed by not suspending Burrows…
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 7, 2011 12:59 PM PDT reply actions
yes, i agree. the league is embarrassed. and they should be. there should have been a suspension.
Wait till this year.
To sort of disperse my bias, I also felt they messed up by not suspending Horton for the bottle throwing incident too.
And we won’t go back in time to the Jason Demers high-jump tackle on Smyth…
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 7, 2011 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
If the league doesn’t want players to respond to unpunished biting incidents, they should try punishing the biting incidents in the first place.
Bullseye, meet the point that hit ya.
I thought what Lucic did was amusing, but mainly in the context of the Bruins trying to do stand up for themselves when the League let them down. As vigilanteism goes, it was pretty mild and kind of funny.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
I Agree
above the entertainment value for fans I content this will be one of those great “remember” moment of hockey trivia for fans.
So app that its the Bruins. Last time it went to the stands.
So great that this shaping up to be a brutal series. Haven’t had a good one in years.
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
I love hockey, but sometimes the super respectful nature of hockey culture sucks the fun out of it.
That’s the problem, the respectful nature has seemingly gone out the window this season. That’s part of what’s made this the greatest league in sports… no tomahawk hacks when driving the net, no trying to gouge the other guy’s eyes out when at the bottom of a pile, no steroids, etc.
If I see another cheap shot resulting in a potentially career ending concussion, I’m going to throw up myself. Makes me sick.
Just grow up and play hockey.
I feel like the problem is not the fact that the respectful nature is receding, but how it is. The taunting, trashtalk, actual emotion filled answers to the press is all good. The dirty plays, liberties, and for lack of a better word “cheating” at times, is wrong. The league needs to do a better job of curbing the correct offenses. Biting should be the offense, not the mocking of it. The mocking of it makes a great story, the biting itself is dirty.
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by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 7, 2011 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, Mike Murphy, crack down swiftly on all this finger-wagging. Before it spirals out of control. Good job.
It would have been hilarious/sad for someone to have bitten Burrows instead, just to see the league squirm over whether or not that deserved a suspension.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Well, it is a little different than getting in someones face. Your nose or lips or tongue usually doesn’t end up actually in the guys mouth when you do that, whereas Bergeron’s fingers might have. The video isn’t crystal clear to me if it’s Burrows taking his finger into his mouth and aggressively biting or if it’s Bergeron sticking them in there. Likely the former, but I have a problem with saying it’s wrong to bite a guy who is sticking his fingers in your mouth.
Help me with that one. Why is it wrong to bite a guy who sticks his fingers in your mouth? With the assumption that Bergeron’s action of sticking his glove in Burrows’ face results in the finger going in, how is Burrows in the wrong to bite him?
by Captain Material on Jun 7, 2011 4:12 PM PDT reply actions
Why is it wrong to bite a guy who sticks his fingers in your mouth?
Because he’s not five?
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
So, maturity? That’s seriously the argument, that it’s simply self evident? I guess I value my personal space and right not to be forcibly physically gagged more than you guys. I’m not trying to stick up for the individual or specific case, but I don’t see where players have a right to physically jam stuff into their opponents’ mouths. Whatever between consenting individuals, but I don’t see lacing up the skates as consent to have things literally forced into your mouth.
by Captain Material on Jun 7, 2011 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions
So, maturity? That’s seriously the argument, that it’s simply self evident? I guess I value my personal space and right not to be forcibly physically gagged more than you guys.
They are playing a sport that allows for significant physical contact. I think “personal space” kind of goes out the window when you’re playing a professional team sport (that isn’t baseball).
I will give you a more serious answer, but I’m surprised this is being questioned.
Hockey is a violent sport, yes, but there are still boundaries. There is a taboo against biting for a reason — even “old school” players do not give it a pass. It is not something that is considered fair game. It is instead considered infantile and savage. Why do you think biting garners headlines? Even in a boxing match — it’s a sport where we watch men beat each other to a bloody pulp for entertainment, but biting is not permitted.
I don’t care that Bergeron’s fingers were near or even partially in his mouth — nothing can justify that reaction. The ultimate responsibility to refrain from biting still lies with the player. Bite-free facewashing happens all the time. Burrows just needed to exercise some self-control.
I have no idea why people are trying to excuse what he did, but if biting becomes acceptable in the NHL, I will be thoroughly disgusted. And I’m not alone.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Yeah, I get aggressive biting being clearly wrong. I also get that you are consenting to quite a bit of physical contact when you lace up the skates. But this is a bit of a unique case relative to all the examples I’m seeing so far people give. No one is going to aggressively jam an ear into your mouth. Not sure it’s physically possible unless you have a rather stiff ear. Simply having your mouth closed is rather good defense against that.
Getting in someones face nose to nose or butting heads isn’t forcing anything into anyones mouth either. Bones are stiff, cartillige is usually not and is not capable of being used as a weapon like, say, a finger.
The closest example I’m seeing here is eye gouging…and eyes can’t bite back. I’m glad eye gouging gets mentioned though as being out of bounds, because that’s kind of where I’d place sticking your fingers in ANY oriface on your opponents head (or elsewhere for those crazy soccer fans).
I guess I don’t get the relative outrage over the bite, but jamming your finger into another guy’s head oriface, in the fashion of eye gouging, to be something that isn’t out of bounds as long as it’s your fingers and his mouth. I’ve never been talking accidental contact here either or trying to excuse aggressive biting.
In the specific case, it does look like Burrows aggressively bites. But I’m probably 70/30 on being sure what is going on there from the video. His chin coming down could be from the finger getting forced in. That’s equivalent to an eye gouge, so where’s the outrage at the initiation (if you assume that’s the case)?
I guess I’m kind of questioning this because there seems to be a presumption of guilt for any kind of bite; that clearly if any bite occured the person with the teeth is in the wrong. I kind of think the person gouging the other person should be taking some responsibility, and defensively closing your mouth and biting the guy isn’t immediately, obviously to anyone older than five, the wrong reaction.
If eye gouging is wrong and out of bounds, you’d think there would be outrage concerning the whole of this situation before you chronologically get to the bite.
by Captain Material on Jun 8, 2011 11:21 AM PDT reply actions
I get that it wouldn’t have happened without provocation, and I agree with you there. But let me put it this way. The NHL rulebook has defined biting (as well as hair-pulling, mask-grabbing, etc.) as behavior that falls under unsportsmanlike conduct. It’s supposed to be penalized, no matter the provocation or what circumstances led up to it.
75.1 Unsportsmanlike Conduct – Players, goalkeepers and non-playing Club personnel are responsible for their conduct at all times and must endeavor to prevent disorderly conduct before, during or after the game, on or off the ice and any place in the rink. The Referees may assess penalties to any of the above team personnel for failure to do so.
I suppose the ref could have given Bergeron an unsportsmanlike penalty for putting his finger in there (which isn’t on the same level of eye gouging in my mind, due to the small likelihood of injury, but I guess we’ll have to disagree). But that’s the ref’s discretion, and that kind of behavior isn’t as clearly defined — nor does it carry the same level of stigma as biting. In the end, both of them just got penalties for roughing.
Burrows’ part in the whole scrum made headlines because biting has garnered suspensions before, whereas fingers in the mouth/face haven’t. I think that’s the main thing.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
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