I don't think Lombardi is saying what you think he's saying
I just got finished watching the video clips of Dean Lombardi ruminating on 2010-11. I have a lot of thoughts on different corners of the interview, but I want to address first the portion of the video that deals with Dustin Penner. I read somewhere that Lombardi "all but called the trade a mistake." And, of course, this Lombardi interview has been rolled together with the ESPN quote about Penner's softball league status, forming one super-nova of "you suck."
Only I don't think that's what he was saying at all.
I took the liberty of transcribing the NHL.com interview so we can go line by line:
At the time we did it, we thought that this was going to be a good fit, and obviously it wasn't the impact that we were hoping [for].
And the reasons for that lack of impact have been debated into the ground. (1) Kopitar injury; (2) Williams injury; (3) new system; (4) conditioning. It's not like there was doubt if Lombardi was happy with Penner's contribution after the trade.
The one thing we're learning about him, I think he cares about the right things, but there is some work to do in terms of fitting in this culture we're trying to create. And that was made clear that we have to get on the same page here now this summer. This is a group -- when you think of the Matt Greenes and Jarret Stolls -- those veterans really know how to work -- Scuderi -- they're quality veterans. And he's got to fit into that mold, because these young players [...] are a big part of our team, [and] they still, in their way, want to identify with these guys who have been through the wars.
Translation: Penner is a role model and if he doesn't get with the program, it will have a trickle-down effect. We've heard this before (see Alex Frolov, also, in a different context, the rationale for not acquiring Dany Heatley). The veterans represent what Lombardi wants the kids to be when they grow up. And that's obviously a huge part of how he goes about selecting which veterans to bring in, and which to let go.
Lombardi clearly believes that the kids will emulate the behavior they see rewarded.
You're dealing with a player who clearly has the potential to score 25-30 goals, easy. Athletically, he's very underrated -- but it's all about getting in shape, fitting in with the culture and the work ethic, and then i think the sky's the limit.
The story so far: Penner's heart is in the right place, but he's expected to be a role model in all things. Because, in addition to the "trickle-down" effect, if every player in the system does not pull his own weight, in terms of conditioning, "compete", discipline, effort -- it undermines the players' trust in each other. Kind of a important, since, without trust, the system doesn't work.
This is a guy who won a Stanley Cup, and was a big part of it, and we've got to get back to some of those values, [for him] to be what he wants to be.
Translation: he spent a long time in Edmonton losing the will to live. And it's not as though Lombardi and Penner want different things. They are both working toward the common goal of Penner being a 35-40 goal scorer with a second cup ring.
In the end, i think this is a good person, deep down, who wants the right things, but -- hopefully, he can get the job done this summer, because it's imperative, or it's not going to work.
As a coach once said to me, no matter how talented you are, if you're not working as hard as you can, there's someone out there who is, and that's the guy who's going to make the team. Or, to quote Dan Bylsma (back when he was a King) "if everyone did their jobs, I wouldn't be in the NHL." Something like that.
[...] The fit with [Penner], the thought of -- when he's playing like he did [...] two years ago, he was one of the best players in the league there, for that stretch -- and the thought of that size and that type of ability playing with Kopitar...could be pretty scary. It has a little bit of -- I don't want to get carried away -- but it has a little of that Legion of Doom look, and that was a powerful force, when you look at the size of those two guys.
That would be Eric Lindros and, I assume, John LeClair. I don't think he thinks Kopi is Mikael Renberg.
But there's a lot more work, you gotta still work, if you want to be in that bracket.
If you want to be a member of one of the best lines ever, you have to work hard. You have to work harder than you would if you were just coasting on your own natural ability. That is the crux of the infamous El Cid Lounge softball team comment. It's not hard to settle for how good you are at your default setting. Any idiot in any beer league in the world can do that. Lombardi is selling a vision of a team in which each player is essentially obligated to be the best possible version of himself, in which no individual is exempt, even -- in fact, especially -- superstars.
Which is why those of us who have been translating Lombardi for several years know that he's not saying anything to Dustin Penner that he hasn't already said to Anze Kopitar, Drew Doughty, or Jonathan Bernier or Jack Johnson. And I'm pretty sure Lombardi has a pretty high opinion of those guys.
I think of it as, "We like you. We traded for you. We gave up a lot to get you. We have seen what you can do. And here's what we expect..."*
32 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Agreed, on all counts. I never thought he was insulting Penner. I may be the only person in the world who thinks being called an underachiever is a compliment and an overachiever is an insult. Essentially, being called an underachiever means you are talented – much more so than you have let on – and that greater things are expected of you. Being called an overachiever means nobody really thought much of you and they’re amazed your sub-par ass has risen to its current level of competence. You’re nothing special – just a hard worker.
Therefore, when DL implied Penner is an underachiever, I heard it as a compliment, strange as it seems.
I get what your saying in terms of it being a compliment to your talent to be an underachiever but don’t really agree overall on those ideas. Assuming the talent level you have is a given, how well you do depends on how hard you are willing to work to be the best possible that you can be. I’d much rather be known as a hard working guy that gives it my all and raised myself up to playing in the NHL through my will to improve and constant effort than a guy with all the talent in the world that doesn’t really try and just coasts by. Yeah, it is a compliment to your talent to be called an underachiever but it also means you are lazy/unmotivated/etc. and that is definitely not something I think anyone would think is nice to be called
Yea, but Quisp, rational thinking and deductive reasoning doesn’t make a good news story.
www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 9, 2011 10:46 PM PDT reply actions
*thinking doesn't make a good news story
fixed. might as well simplify it since it’s still true.
You wanna tell me that to mah face?!
by uvgt2bkdnme on Jun 10, 2011 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Thinking is so hard. Why can’t people just say things at me so I can believe them?
www.prosportsblogging.com
by Great Ice-Pectations on Jun 10, 2011 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Seems simple when you put it that way.
You know what? we need a permenant translater that speaks DL in this organization. Everytime he speaks, everybody goes hog wild on what he’s really saying, and if you read between the lines, he’s clearly saying this, or that.
I’ve been trying to assure some fans that he wouldn’t publicly trash Penner, because IF he was that sort of GM, he would of done it years ago with Cloutier, or a whole host of other underperformers from the last 4 years.
Most believe it’s a shape up, or your history scenario, but I don’t see him as the type to use negative reinforcement to acomplish his goals.
I agree here – Lombardi was not insulting Penner or saying the trade was a mistake, but simply saying that Penner has room to improve, and that the Kings expect him to improve. The problem is that DL doesn’t usually talk in easily digestable sound bytes, and that’s all the media wants, so instead of quoting the entirity of what DL said, they jump on the softball comment, and go from there.
I still believe that Penner will have a great year next year – a full year with Kopitar and Williams, a better understanding of the system and the expectations on him and the team. Plus it’s a contract year, and he knows if he doesn’t perform, it will cost him millions of dollars in the future.
Whoda thunk that a cheesy, poorly acted, romantic movie with bad “special” effects would be liked by so many (MEN!) and good for so many tag-lines. Inconceivable!
Penner, do you want me to send you back to where you were? UNEMPLOYED? IN GREENLAND?
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Ha!
With the way Penner played, it sure did look like he was mostly dead all day. I think the “El Cid” comment was DL using small words so that the warthog-faced buffoon would be sure understand.
Ideally, I suppose, one would simply be considered an “achiever.” Who needs qualifying prepositions anyway? :)
I don’t know — I agree with you in general, yet I still think there’s no issue whatsoever if Lombardi just says what he said in the video clip. The crux of the argument is fine: Penner needs to be better. But he did say the El Cid line, and I did think the tone of that little dig is what garnered the biggest reaction. Why wouldn’t it? The most insulting formulation of that line of thinking is also the most colorful.
You know people would never have forgotten it if he compared Kopitar’s conditioning to Urkel’s, or something. It’s just…different.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Penner knows the score....
…and who knows what, if any impact Penner had upon the locker room…the real danger!!!
Quisp covered the bases quite well as far as my Penner think went.
From the day of the trade I felt Penner was akin to a just returned exile from Siberia needing to reacquaint himself with normal life or hit the bottle. When Williams and Kopitar went down I believe he found himself adrift without a support system…dangerous.
But Kopitar…naw, Kopitar is consistently improving, Penner needs to get back to the garden.
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
I guess I am just used to coaches talking like this. "If you don't want to work, go play in house league."
It’s not like he said he’s only good enough to play beer league softball. He said he can either bring the commitment or go somewhere where it’s not required. I don’t even find the El Cid comment insulting, frankly. What is he insulting? He’s saying, the reason you underperformed is that you weren’t in shape, not that you’re no good. Questioning the conditioning of a player who is in top condition would be insulting. Questioning the conditioning of a player who is out of shape…that’s fair enough.
Wait till this year.
Questioning the conditioning of a player who is out of shape…that’s fair enough.
Questioning his conditioning is fine, and undoubtedly fair. But saying he could wind up as the #4 hitter in the El Cid’s league reads as an extra twist of sarcasm to me. And that’s what garnered the attention rather than the other quotes.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Also: maybe he was just as sarcastic with Kopi and Drew face to face, but if so, I don’t remember hearing about it.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
as an experienced professional who has been in the business perhaps he simply felt that was the most effective way to motivate this player. They must have spoken prior to the trade and knew who/what they were getting.
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
Whether Dean meant to be that pointed or not, I don’t care. My basic take on the matter still stands. If Penner is so fragile and prissy that Kings management has to worry about hurting poor widdle Dustin’s feelings, then he’s not someone the Kings want to have around anyway, especially as part of the leadership group. Penner is a big boy, in more ways than one. He should be able to handle it.
I recall saying more or less the same thing about Johnson during the Berenson-gate kerfluffle. And look what happened with him.
Besides: Can you imagine what it would be like if Hexy was GM? Talk about a guy who doesn’t hold back.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
I recall saying more or less the same thing about Johnson
If I remember correctly, he referred to Johnson as “terrible.”
Also, I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along.
If I remember correctly, he referred to Johnson as "terrible."
He thought that was off the record, in that instance. Or at least, he claimed it was. And then he knew he needed to do some damage control.
If the issue is truly “Why is everyone making a big deal about this?” — well — he’s not exactly sticking to the polite generalities a lot of GMs confine themselves to. Which is how DL operates. But I don’t think that means that’s always free from drawbacks.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
that was the most effective way to motivate this player.
I have no problem with that being said face-to-face, but I fail to see what it adds if you air it in public. See MacTavish vs. Quinn where Penner is concerned.
I care about goals. I don’t see how that conflicts with showing a little more class.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
it doesn't, but in lombardi's case his classiness is embodied by his honesty and in the desire to speak like a fan and treat the fans with respect, as though they are not rubes
his demeanor is more Mamet than Stoppard though.
Wait till this year.
It’s actually kind of hard for me to imagine how you could have Lombardi’s extraordinary openness about the process of his job — which has been a thinking fan’s dream — without the occasional bout of unforced candor, like the Penner-softball team remark and his remarks about JJ and Michigan. It’s all part of the same impulse to speak freely because you like to think that you can trust people to take it the right way, and the bad just comes with the good. If he starts censoring himself, we will lose the good stuff along with the occasional eye-opener.
And BTW, Rudy may have just given me a new sig line.
"Prepare your bladder for imminent release!" — Invader Zim
his demeanor is more Mamet than Stoppard
-Everyone needs goals. That why they call them GOALS.
-Don’t you teach ’em hockey playing. Teach ’em to hockey winning. That way, they meet some sonofabitch who studied playing, they send his soul to hell.
That coffee. Down. Coffee’s for closers only
-But Dean, closers are in baseba
-SHUT UP!!!
by RudyKelly on Jun 13, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Haha.
I could write Frolov and Ponikarovsky Are Dead, but it would never meet with commercial success.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
Heads...heads....heads...heads...
I like the idea of frolov and poni not being sure which one of them is frolov and which is poni.
does that make terry murray…hamlet?
Wait till this year.

















