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Around SBN: Trent Richardson Interviews Fellow Brown Brandon Weeden

No, a buy-out is not a circumvention of the CBA

The Sheet: Lamoriello's bag of tricks - sportsnet.ca
So let me get this straight: Front loading a contract that includes dead years at the end where the player has zero intention of playing (Ilya Kovalchuk) for cap relief was a violation of the "spirit" of the salary cap,

It's a violation of the CBA because an action that has no reasonable explanation other than intent to circumvent the CBA is a circumvention of the CBA. Also, assuming there is no implicit limit on contract length leads to the collapse of the CBA (everyone could have million-year tails and all contracts would have the same cap hit: the league minimum salary for that year).

Causing collapse of the CBA is a violation of the CBA. :)

...yet trading for a player with zero intention of him ever playing (Trent Hunter) with the sole purpose of buying him out for cap relief isn't?

I don't see how those two situations are analogous. The Kovalchuk contract would have given an unfair advantage to the Devils (able to sign more/better players) and would have taken money out of the pockets of every other player in the league (the discrepancy between Kovalchuk's salary and cap hit would come directly out of the NHLPA "players' share", meaning the players would pay for a portion of Kovalchuk's salary out of escrow; but in the tail years, the discrepancy would be reversed and the players would get, in effect, "paid back." However: since Kovalchuk would have retired before he ever got to the tail years, the "players' share" would never benefit from having less salary taken out compared to Kovalchuk's cap hit, as it would have in the tail years had Kovalchuk played out the full contract; therefore, the players would have paid for Kovalchuk's extra salary and gotten screwed at both ends of the deal -- they still will, actually, but much much less so). 

But the Trent Hunter buy-out? There's no unfair advantage gained by any one team or any one player at the expense of anyone else. Teams are welcome to buy-out players, per the CBA. Players know they can be bought out. Teams are welcome to trade players who will then be bought out by other teams, since this is one way a team manages its cap. In fact, teams must have this ability if they are to comply with the cap rules. The only way a team can acquire cap space is by trading or loaning a player, putting him on waivers in hopes that he's claimed, or by buying the player out. But you can only do buy-outs in two narrow windows on the calendar. So, obviously, teams will trade players to other teams who will take on the player knowing that they will buy-out the player when the window opens. Teams need this flexibility. There's nothing unfair about it.

Unless of course the player you get in trade can't be bought out because he's got an undisclosed long-term injury.

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But the Trent Hunter buy-out? There’s no unfair advantage gained by any one team or any one player at the expense of anyone else.

Sure there’s an unfair advantage, the Devils don’t have to give Ice Time to Trent Hunter, lol.

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by Mark D on Aug 3, 2011 11:32 AM PDT reply actions  

it was a very poorly made argument

but i think the line of thinking is “Lou should have to suffer the consequences of giving Brian Rolston that ridiculous contract in the first place.”

just like, as a Detroit fan, i wanted Chicago to suffer through even more salary cap hell last offseason by not allowing them to bury Cristobal Huet’s contract. while nothing was illegal about the loan to (i think?) a Swiss team(?), as a fan of an opposing team, i wanted Chicago to suffer for their bad or short-sighted decisions.

You wanna tell me that to mah face?!

by uvgt2bkdnme on Aug 3, 2011 12:11 PM PDT reply actions  

But Lou was able to find another team to take the ridicilous Roloston contract off his hands, which means he shouldn’t be punished for it any longer. Lou has always bent the rules in terms of the cap, but in this case, he did nothing wrong. He found someone to take a bad contract off his hands, and then bought out another player, which he is allowed to do. That’s how you manage you cap, and there’s nothing wrong with it.

I do kind of agree with you on the Huet thing though. Just like I think the Rangers should in someway have to suffer for their ridicilous Redden contract. If you can dump your bad contracts on another NHL team, fine. But I don’t like these loan agreements to Europe, or simply burying bad contracts in the AHL. But that’s just me.

by Hoolie on Aug 3, 2011 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Devils did suffer

Early in the year when they didn’t have enough cap space to call up someone in the event of an injury that didn’t require an LTIR exemption.

As for the Rangers and Redden, I have to imagine that demoting a player in the AHL is something the large market teams bargained for in the last CBA. I wouldn’t be surprised to see that loophole get partially closed in the next CBA.

by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Aug 3, 2011 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

i agree completely

the stupid now falls to the Islanders for taking on that Rolston contract. (although it might not be as stupid considering they needed to get to the cap floor.) i was just trying to parse what the original writer could possibly be thinking in claiming that the trade and subsequent buyout was somehow a cap circumvention.

You wanna tell me that to mah face?!

by uvgt2bkdnme on Aug 3, 2011 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

$7.5M for Weber

Weber might not be Meehan’s client anymore, but I’m sure this made Meehan and Doughty smile.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=373133

by SCSF on Aug 3, 2011 12:52 PM PDT reply actions  

Certainly not the number Lombardi was hoping Weber to get, that’s for sure. Signing Doughty longterm probably just got more expensive.

by Hoolie on Aug 3, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that’s not good for DL. I’m thinking any deal more than 5 years will be at least $7 mil per.

by sstephen17 on Aug 3, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I'd actually be more comfortable with a short-team deal for Doughty

Although I’m not sure if he gets more than $7 mil per… Should he get more than Weber?

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by Paul Udani on Aug 3, 2011 1:15 PM PDT reply actions  

At this point, I don’t think he should get more than Weber, but if you want to lock him long term, you at least have to come close to Weber’s number to get him to sign. Which is why, you may be right, and Lombardi tries to lock Doughty up for just 3 years, so he’ll still be RFA at the end of it, and then try to sign him long term. Although by then, Doughty could demand even more than he is right now, and more than Weber, depending on how those years go. I seriously have no idea what DL is going to do now.

by Hoolie on Aug 3, 2011 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

It's not quite

An apples to apples comparison given that Weber had arb rights whereas Doughty doesn’t. In some ways Stamkos is a better comparison based on service time. The Kings certainly run the risk of signing him to a string of 1 year deals that get more expensive. IMO, a similar deal to Stamkos isn’t a bad deal. If they’re looking at $7.5M as a possible arb award after his 1st year of eligibility, then you can imagine what his value of his first 2 UFAs would be. Then again he’s of the age that a 10 year deal with a friendlier annual cap hit carries a lot less risk than similar length deals handed to UFA players.

by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Aug 3, 2011 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

nor do I

it’s sure as heck not an easy situation to be in….
funny that Doughty got sort of the equivalent of a scott boras as his agent.
people like that ruin sports…..

sure son……’I’ll give you a heck of a deal….. ya kan ave Manny for only 25 milion a year for two years’ (he he he…….. just hope they don’t find out about the juice….. oh well, a contracts a contract).

by number 6 on Aug 3, 2011 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

When I saw $7.5 for one year I thought….. oh boy. After all the collective bargaining stuff of several years ago not to mention a year of play lost…….. and now this.

It’s a wee bit of a joke really. That’s just my opinion. Hey whatever the market will bear I suppose.

by number 6 on Aug 3, 2011 1:52 PM PDT reply actions  

The last line

is the best line.

Lighthouse Hockey: A flute with no holes is not a flute. A Dane with no holes is Frans Nielsen.

by Dominik on Aug 3, 2011 2:21 PM PDT reply actions  

I assume you’re referring to this pearl, in which case, I agree 100%. Great shot across the Oiler-bow, best line of another great Quisp breakdwn:

Unless of course the player you get in trade can’t be bought out because he’s got an undisclosed long-term injury.

Re: DD’s contract – I side with those who think it’s premature for him to get Weber / Stamkos $$$. I don’t need to regurgitate points already brought up, so I’ll merely restate that the kid is just 21. What does he care about $6M/yr, $6.5M, $7M+, it’s a buttload of $$. My guess is, more than anything, a kid as gifted and competitive as DD wants to win and to win a lot, and the best way to do that is by agreeing to a deal that works for both sides, so the Kings can continue to add pieces and remain competitive for years (and decades – fingers crossed) to come.

Getting back to the Oilers for a second. I’d love for the league to give them a metaphorical Doughty hip check to their metaphorical Taylor Hall dome-piece.

by Doughty99 on Aug 3, 2011 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

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