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The Kings have more defensemen than they can use

BUFFALO NY - DECEMBER 26: Defenseman Derek Forbort #7 of USA tries to fend off forward Toni Rajala #25 of Finland during the 2011 IIHF World U20 Championship game between USA and Finland on December 26 2010 at HSBC Arena in Buffalo New York. (Photo by Tom Szczerbowski/Getty Images)

Matthew Barry ruminates on the Kings' embarrassment of riches on defense.

HockeyBuzz.com - Matthew Barry - Kings/Islanders Talking Hickey/Voynov?

"Lombardi needs to admit his mistake and move on", one Kings insider told me in regards to the oft injured Thomas Hickey who was surprisingly selected 4th in the 2007 draft. Meanwhile, Karl Alzner (whom Lombardi passed on saying "he was already a man"), Jacob Voracek and Sam Gagner have already made that selection look increasingly bad. [...]

However, when Hickey is healthy, he is a complete leader on the ice and there's a reason why he was expected to be drafted in the top 12. 

I would be surprised if Hickey is dealt before he plays even one game for the Kings. This is the last year of his ELC, and I think it's more likely we'll be seeing him this season. In fact, I have a plan for this.

Vito  Voynov (yes, I'm calling him Vito) has threatened to bolt to the KHL and with the Kings top 6 already settled, Voynov would be battling Davis Drewiske and Jake Muzzin for the 7th D-man slot.

Voynov, Muzzin, Alec Martinez, Hickey and Nicolas Deslauriers (oh, and Drewiske) are all in the mix for one third-pairing spot and one seat in the press box (that's how I look at it, anyway). Martinez has the edge over everyone for the spot next to Matt Greene, and Drewiske has the inside track on the press box, just because he's so scratchable. The Kings, could, of course, carry eight defensemen, and might well do this to start the season. 

p.s. I'm not sure we ever got a real report that Voynov has "threatened to bolt." But it seems like common sense to worry about it.

Another year in Manchester or being a healthy scratch isn't going to sit well with [Voynov]. Anyone who has seen him play says he's NHL ready. Lombardi is without a 2nd round pick in 2012 (see: Mike Richards) and may not have his 3rd either (see: Dustin Penner deal). My problem is, having "developed" these two over the past 3-4 years, only to draft another player to develop 3-4 years, doesn't fit the Lombardi M.O. and doesn't make a lot of sense unless the Islanders are willing to throw in a prospect or two.

Voynov for a pick would be a disaster. Voynov for a pick and prospect...obviously that depends. But if I had to bet, I would bet in favor of seeing Voynov this season, too. A cup of coffee at minimum. 

The Kings are stocked with defensive prospects. They absolutely love Andrew Campbell and Nic Deslauriers is a keeper. Lets not forget Derek Forbort either. It's a good problem to have and Kings fans haven't been able to say that in over 40+ years.

I didn't know the Kings loved Andrew Campbell. I haven't seen a lot of him, but he appears to have been progressing steadily if slowly. Having dealt Teubert -- and with Forbort still a few years off -- he's the only big body left in the pipeline.

Deslauriers, as I have been saying for awhile now, might make the team next month. I'm not going to say it's likely, but I expect a lot of people to be "surprised" by him. Put it this way: I expect him to play well enough that it's at least a tough decision for Lombardi. 

This is probably a pretty good time to look at the Kings defensive depth chart, to see where if anywhere these prospects can fit long-term. (That's my idea of a transition. The truth is, I have this stupid chart, and I need to use it...)

Star-divide

This -- in chart form -- is one way I think about d when I think about d. It assumes that Lombardi is not going to intentionally leave the defense without at least two and ideally three veterans, whose jobs it is to anchor the crazy kids and provide some stability, shut-down capability, balance, all that good stuff. 

20092010201120122013
RESPONSIBLE GROWN-UP Scuderi Scuderi Scuderi Scuderi Doughty
RESPONSIBLE GROWN-UP Greene Mitchell Mitchell Doughty Johnson
3RD-PAIRING GROWN-UP O'Donnell Greene Greene Greene (Scuderi)
OFFENSIVE UPSTART Doughty Doughty Doughty Johnson Deslauriers
OFFENSIVE UPSTART Johnson Johnson Johnson Deslauriers/Martinez/Hickey/Voynov Martinez/Hickey/Voynov
HYBRID (3RD-PAIRING/PRESS-BOX) Jones Martinez Martinez Muzzin Muzzin
HYBRID (3RD-PAIRING/PRESS-BOX) Drewiske Drewiske Muzzin Deslauriers/Martinez/Hickey/Voynov   
HYBRID (3RD-PAIRING/PRESS-BOX) Harrold Harrold Hickey/Voynov    
CUP OF COFFEE Martinez Muzzin Voynov/Hickey    
ON-DECK   Voynov Deslauriers    
SUBTRACT/TRADE     Drewiske Mitchell Greene

 

Don't take this chart too literally. It's mostly my attempt to organize these chess pieces into a coherent plan of attack. The assumptions are as follows:

  • At some point Doughty and Johnson will segue from being crazy kids to being responsible grown-ups. 
  • Lombardi is not going to ship out (or let walk) multiple veterans at once. 
  • There will likely be a loss of one veteran each season. 
  • If none of Muzzin, Deslauriers, Hickey or Voynov are ready to step in, in 2012, then Mitchell might get re-signed. Otherwise, 2011-12 will be his last Kings' season. 
  • In 2013-14, it will be time for one of Scuderi or Greene to go. Scuderi would have to be re-signed, and Greene will still have a year left on his contract. Still, I think it will be Greene who moves on, via trade.
  • At which point, Scuderi is left as the Obi-Wan figure. 
  • As we have discussed many times, Hickey, Voynov, Muzzin, Martinez and (now) Deslauriers all (varying degrees of) hope that they can make the team now. The only available spots are the third-pair with Matt Greene, the press box seats, and an extra opening should Doughty opt to stay home for a few weeks. 
  • To this point, I have held to the belief that it would be a waste to promote Hickey or Voynov only to stick him in the press box more often than not. Now I'm starting to wonder about that. Why not jettison Drewiske and shuttle Hickey, Voynov and/or Deslauriers back and forth from Manchester all year. They're all waiver-exempt. They can soak up the system. Drewiske is 26 (or something). His upside is, well he doesn't have one really. What you see is probably what you get. But it's worth it to see what these kids can do, especially since their upsides are so big. (And especially with the Voynov "flight risk".) 
  • The Kings will never have a defense of Doughty, Johnson, Hickey, Deslauriers, Muzzin, Voynov and Martinez -- although on some level that would be insane and hilarious. The thing is, the jury is still out, in one way or another, on every one of those guys. We don't know if Doughty is Bourque or Hamrlik. We don't know if Johnson is ever going to mature (he'll always be skilled; but will he be a trust-worthy veteran, etc.?). Deslauriers could turn out to be better than Johnson, in which case...see why avoiding NTCs is a good thing? Voynov, he could be Visnovsky....or Yachmanev. Hickey? He could still turn out to be Scott Neidermayer. 
  • Lombardi needs to hang on to all these guys for a couple more years, at which point we'll know a lot more. 
  • Is that possible? Hickey and Muzzin have one year left on their deals, Voynov and Martinez have two, Deslauriers has three. Voynov is the wild-card, if the persistent "KHL" rumors mean anything. Since he's maybe the fastest hockey player on the planet, I hope he shows up week after next and blows everyone away. Of course, if he sucks, that could be clarifying, also. 
  • I can't wait for camp. 
Oh, here's another chart I made. Another attempt to organize my thoughts on this topic. It's kind of pointless, but I share it anyway. 

exp.YOBGPReadyT43PScrPPSDHitsSize
Mitchell 2012 1977 643 2001 yes yes no no yes! yes! L
Scuderi 2013 1978 455 2005 yes yes no no yes! yes! L
Greene 2014 1983 379 2006 no yes no no yes yes! L
Johnson 2018 1987 282 2008 yes no no yes no yes! M
Doughty 2011 1989 239 2007 yes no no yes no yes! M
Drewiske 2013 1984 97 2009 no yes yes ? ? no M
Martinez 2013 1987 64 2010 yes yes yes yes no yes M
Muzzin 2012 1989 11 2011 yes yes yes yes ? yes! L
Campbell 2012 1988 0 2012 no yes yes no no ? XL
Hickey 2012 1989 0 2012 yes yes ? yes ? yes S
Voynov 2013 1990 0 2012 yes ? ? yes no ? S
Deslauriers 2014 1991 0 2012 yes yes ? yes no yes! M
Forbort u 1992 0 2014 yes yes ? yes ? ? XL
Gravel u 1992 0 2014 no yes yes no ? yes L

 

 

KEY: EXP = year current contract expires; YOB = year of birth; GP = NHL games played; READY = my guess at when the player will be NHL-ready; T4 = top-four defenseman; 3P = can play third pairing; SCR = suitable for healthy scratching; PP = can play powerplay; SD = can play shut-down role; HITS = does he hit; SIZE = size. 

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I’m still holding out hope that one day we’ll say a Hickey-Doughty pairing.

The West Coast is the Best Coast.

by RudyKelly on Aug 30, 2011 9:29 PM PDT reply actions  

I keep trying to be all steely-hearted about such things, and then…

Um, if there’s a Hockey Santa, I want that.

In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC

by Niesy on Aug 31, 2011 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know it was just rookie camp, but Muzzin looked pretty ready. He looked pretty ready last season, though I’m sure he’ll be better after some seasoning in the AHL.

"After months of reading other people’s catchy sigs (like yours), I decided I needed one, too." -- DougX

by VoluminousTuna on Aug 30, 2011 10:38 PM PDT reply actions  

I was surprised when he got sent down last season, because he I didn’t think he looked out of place on the big club. But after Martinez came back up, it made more sense to me.

I like the idea of making good use of Hickey, Muzzin and Deslauriers all being waiver-exempt and giving each of them 15-30 games. For Deslauriers, really just a cup of coffee, because he’s still really young. But the other guys could each have 25-30 games. Bud Holloway is perhaps a cautionary tale about not giving your prospects a taste of the carrot.

“Obi-Wan Scuderi” makes me smile in a warm and fuzzy way.

"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly

by DougX on Aug 30, 2011 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought the same about Hickey, and Muzzin. I was glad to see Martinez do so well, but I spent the rest of the season defending Hickey, and Muzzin from those who thought being sent down meant they were a waist of time.

by defrim65 on Aug 31, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

They were probably the same people who had written off Martinez after his ankle sprain in ’09, and/or after being cut from camp before those two.

In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC

by Niesy on Aug 31, 2011 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good problem to have

Like you said, get Drewiske out of there… Voynov should really be in LA already…If anything, he’ll certainly help us with the PP…

If not, tell him his passport expired or something to that effect…

The more you drink, the less gruesome I look.
Writing and inciting at Barca Blaugranes
Troll @shadowking011

by Paul Udani on Aug 31, 2011 12:42 AM PDT reply actions  

I feel kind of bad for Drewiske. He looked like he was going to have some up side a couple of years ago. Then he got hurt, regressed and has never shown any flashes of becoming a clone of Matty Norstrom like I was hoping.

"After months of reading other people’s catchy sigs (like yours), I decided I needed one, too." -- DougX

by VoluminousTuna on Aug 31, 2011 12:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Love the charts Quisp!

Would love to see a waiver exempt year/games column in the second one.

On Ruskies bolting; unlikely during an active contract because that would effectively shut them out of the NHL. Once their ELC is up, different story. Bud and Oscar set the new standard on that one.

They also have that pesky Russian military service to think about. They’ll stay for the duration of the ELC and slide.

by Cirtes on Aug 31, 2011 6:05 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

I agree with letting Drewiskie go, or just placing him in Manchester until his deal is done. This probably requires putting him on waivers, and if someone takes him, no big loss. I can’t see there being any trade value for him. More likely however, he’ll be the 7th d-man, but see very little playing time – ie just when someone gets injured and Hickey/Voynov/Muzzin can’t catch a flight out of Manchester in time for the next game.

Sooner or later however, some of the Kings d-prospects will have to be traded. There will never be room for all of them in the NHL, and as Holloway and Moller proved this year, if you hold onto to your prospects too long, you may just lose them for nothing.

by Hoolie on Aug 31, 2011 7:20 AM PDT reply actions  

Nicely summarized, Quisp.

Certainly there needs to be some player movement sooner, rather than later. It’d be foolish if DL lost players due to the calendar and difficult juggling act. I wouldn’t be surprised if both a vet and youngster on D aren’t shipped out a little earlier than we might think.

I really think that we’ll have a very, very competitive training camp in a few weeks.

by SCSF on Aug 31, 2011 8:52 AM PDT reply actions  

The only scenario(s) I can see for Hickey and/or Voinov (the two that have “paid their dues”) to make it:
1. One of them has a great camp (as good/better than Alec Martinez). They trade off being the 6th D with Alec and sitting in the press box.
2. Both have decent camps, but not better than anyone currently on the roster. They are both either sent down or one occupies the press box role and get the first call up.
3. Both of them have great camps (as good/better than Alec Martinez). Lombardi pulls a Richards on Johnson and trades him right after he signs a long, cap-friendly contract. I see this as a possibility because so far Johnson hasn’t shown that he can overcome being a defensive liability. Voinov has potential to surpass Johnson’s offensive capability (remains to be seen on the defensive side) and all indications are that Hickey would be better positionally (Johnson’s biggest weakness). I’m already more comfortable with Martinez defensively. I realize we won’t know about Voinov and Hickey’s NHL defensive play until they play, but it’ll be hard to see (other than in training camp) until a spot opens. This is my favorite option. I don’t see either of them taking Greene’s spot because neither fill his grit quotient (of which only he supplies as far as defense goes).

Are D depth makes me happy and gives me nightmares because we’ve never had this depth but I’m scared will lose the wrong one.

For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.

by Nut on Aug 31, 2011 9:43 AM PDT reply actions  

will lose the wrong one.

Doughty? :)

It is that thing that I sent to you.

by whine_country on Aug 31, 2011 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

will lose the wrong one

Damnit, we’ll

For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.

by Nut on Aug 31, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also, our not are

For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.

by Nut on Aug 31, 2011 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah. I think, “Voynov is the best talent,” but then I start thinking that Hickey would honestly be the best passer on the Kings blueline if he made the team, but Martinez was great last year and it’s not really fair to rip his job away from him, but Muzzin’s the grittiest and the most likely to fill Matt Greene’s shoes… this is hard.

The West Coast is the Best Coast.

by RudyKelly on Aug 31, 2011 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

very hard. I think Hickey is the most well rounded, but agree Voinov might be the best pure talent. But he might screw up as much as Johnson.

For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.

by Nut on Aug 31, 2011 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

If Johnson didn’t suck it’d be a lot easier to fit everyone in.

The West Coast is the Best Coast.

by RudyKelly on Aug 31, 2011 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah. Learn to play defense, dickhead!

For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.

by Nut on Aug 31, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

Glad to see.....

…I’m not the only one who’s a little confused by the Andrew Campbell love……he was a classic DL “WTF” 3rd round pick (like Andreoff this year), and that has probably bought him a little more time and attention from a development standpoint; but despite his size, it seems he’ll have an awfully tough time cracking this defense corps and may end up as a trade chip. Of course, I’ve never seen him play, and maybe this year he’ll finally blossom, and we’ll be saying “Dean, where did you get this guy !?! WTF !!!!”

by jkaflagg on Aug 31, 2011 11:23 AM PDT reply actions  

I recall that Holly, the Monarchs fan who used to post a lot at LAKI, had positive things to say about Campbell, so I don’t know if he’s entirely useless. Whether he can translate well to the NHL is, of course, another matter.

"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly

by DougX on Aug 31, 2011 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Another point to consider......

…..you know Willie Mitchell is gonna get hurt and miss some time, and Greene tends to get nicked up as well…….Like last year, when Martinez grabbed the brass ring, there will likely be opportunities for the kids to break in…… Just nice to have options other than Kevin Dallman or Randy Jones

by jkaflagg on Aug 31, 2011 11:26 AM PDT reply actions  

Yup, organizational depth can save your season. I have a feeling that you’re right, and that once the season gets underway, worries about chances to call up the young D-men will fade away.

"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly

by DougX on Aug 31, 2011 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Funny.

I was just at the OC register blog for the Ducks yesterday defending the Kings from a Ducksfan who said the Kings defense is overrated. A true fan at least has some idea of what an opponents strengths are.

by defrim65 on Aug 31, 2011 1:17 PM PDT reply actions  

Not that I'm a believer of plus/minus

As an accurate measure of defense ability, but Cam Folwer’s minus bajillion has to be of some concern for them.

by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Aug 31, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Much like JJ’s

For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.

by Nut on Aug 31, 2011 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah but

At least there’s Doughty/Scuderi/Mitchell (when fully functioning) to hide his shortcomings.

by MyFavBaseballSquadron on Aug 31, 2011 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I keep wondering where they’d finish in all the categories without him

In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC

by Niesy on Aug 31, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

This, from someone who follows the Ducks? Huh? Must be something in the water supply at Honda Center. Serving tainted beer, or something.

"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly

by DougX on Aug 31, 2011 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yikes...lemme close my eyes!

If that’s our future dmen, then we are in trouble. Notice that you have none rated as capable of playing a shutdown role. Dmen are supposed to shut players down first and foremost! Scott Niedermeyer was no slouch and had high hockey IQ but having a defensive corps full of him equals no playoff games won.

by ToughD on Sep 8, 2011 12:15 PM PDT reply actions  

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