"I would not be surprised if he was a holdout"
by Quisp on Aug 5, 2011 8:30 AM PDT
in Doughty Contract
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I would not be surprised to find out that this comment was supposed to be off-the-record. [UPDATE: Rudy points out in the comments that "this is pretty clearly a plant by Dean to make Doughty nervous." I'm kind of embarrassed I didn't think of that.]
[...] Ferreira's has been a life often spent on the road, and his current role as special assistant to Kings president/general manager Dean Lombardi -- the continuation of a relationship that goes back four decades -- is no different. [...] He is a valuable complement to Lombardi and assistant GM Ron Hextall, filling in whatever gaps need to be filled and contributing the instincts and wisdom of the hockey lifer.[...] Today's Kings are still at a negotiating stalemate with defenseman Drew Doughty , a restricted free agent. That situation got no easier Wednesday when an arbitrator awarded Nashville's Shea Weber, a more experienced defenseman, $7.5 million for one year.
"This year we were up in Toronto for the scouting combine and Dean had some meetings with Newport Sports (Doughty's agents)," Ferreira said. "He came back and they were discussing what went on, and I just looked at him and said, 'Dean, they don't want to make a deal. They're not ready to make a deal.' That's gonna be a tough one. I would not be surprised if he was a holdout. I went through it with Paul Kariya, and Dean's been through it."
More validation for my irrational gut instinct on this situation.
(hat-tip to Bobby Scribe for digging up this article; how it eluded my Google Alerts I'll never know)
Further Reading on Doughty Mania:
- I Disagree with Bobby Scribe
- Weber award is $7.5MM (HIGHEST EVER); so Doughty deserves...
- Make Your Doughty Predictions Here -- Win a Terry Murray Golden Seals card
- Meehan says Doughty "would be willing to stay"??
- The history of (future) Hall of Fame and Norris defensemen before age 22
- Great -- Doughty fears (appear?) justified (...or else what Rudy said)
- Shockingly, agents don't represent their clients' best interests
- Quisp Notes: Lombardi on Doughty contract
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Hmm ... My only thoughts
are- let’s not confuse the timing of those comments. “They don’t want to make a deal…” was spoken back in June, and prior to a few key events (team moves, free agency, and mainly Weber’s now done arbitration deal.)
Having said that, the poo-poo part is of course Jack’s “holdout” comments. Because even though Newp Sports is likely much more ready to make a deal now than they were in June … still doesn’t mean it’ll get done swiftly.
Not going to get any better...
At this point Lombardi is at the point where he can only pay so much and Drew’s legal team should know that. In the cap era, you really can’t get that much money somewhere else. Remember that these guys all pay 50% taxes, not to mention the 10% the agent is going to get. Another million dollars, even if he could get that somewhere else, does not make that much difference.
Holding out would be very harmful from Drew’s development and create unnecessary animosity from the fans. Just sign Drew. You are going to make a lot of money playing hockey….
That would be a shame. It would also further my ever increasing negative view of DD#8. It’s not something I want to feel, but I do. It started last season as I watched him start chirping the refs on their calls (or non calls). He went from being a light hearted kid doing something he loves and was damn good at, to someone who acts as if he deserves something more while doing less. Yes, I know his assignments got tougher, but there was nothing graceful about his season last year. Flashes of a player that he was the season before yet acting like he has “arrived” all the same.
For now I continue to tell myself that he’s young and this is just a lack of maturity speaking. At least that’s what I’m hoping this is all about… Looking back, I was a moron at his age. Then again I was never an an elite athlete, so what do I know?
What Would JeZus do?
That was well said!
I’ve been searching for a way to convey the same sentiment for a while. Thank You!
by Cirtes on Aug 5, 2011 9:17 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I would consider his chirping of the refs more a sign of his competitiveness rather than a sense of entitlement. His concussion early in the season may also be a contributing factor in why he’s had a shorter fuse with the refs.
Srs. Who wasn’t chirping the refs when they were just a teenager? This isn’t something that needs to be overanalyzed.
by BobKnob on Aug 5, 2011 11:14 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Bashing someone based on speculation and fear is a depressing thing to me.
You know what was different in the Stamkos talks? Yzerman made concessions on term and NTC.
There is all this talk about the death of the second contract. I guess we need to go back in time and talk DL out of the deal he gave Kopi.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
by Niesy on Aug 5, 2011 9:37 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I’m with Nisey on this one. The Stamkos deal got done because Yzerman gave in to what Stamkos wanted and talke dto Meehan every day for weeks to get a deal done. Based on the reports, I think Doughty’s contract isn’t done because after he rejected the first deal, Lombardi didn’t call Meehan again for weeks. He’ll be signed, because it’s the only thing you can do. You can’t trade at this point, because you won’t get fair value for a player every GM knows you’re simply trading because you can’t sign him. If you let him hold out, you’ve forever poisoned the relationship between the team and the player, and you’re going to get even less for him. The deal will get done, even if DL has to hold his nose to do it. As for Ferreria’s comments, they are based on what Lombardi said Meehan said back in June. I’m not that worried about it.
There’s also a big difference between giving Stamkos a deal that ends when he’s 26 and Doughty a deal that ends when he’s 26. Yzerman is getting Stamkos through his prime while Doughty will likely be in the middle of his.
Also, this is pretty clearly a plant by Dean to make Doughty nervous.
Really? That was my 1st thought. But maybe I’ve been giving Lombardi too much credit as the master of mind games.
by Passemoilapuck on Aug 5, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
no doubt Yzerman used your chart to obtain the approval of ownership
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
I’m sure Yzerman would have liked to get Stamkos through at least 28. But that’s a good point.
Doughty’s prime years are UFA years, and they’ll cost a lot now or later. Dean can go on about young players and large contracts, but we already know he’d take 9 years if he can get them.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
by Niesy on Aug 6, 2011 7:37 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Just wanted to say hi to everyone. No ‘deep thoughts’ really to add. If DD gets a huge contract, be it for three years or nine, I sure as heck hope he doesn’t start out like he did a year ago, because it would not go down well at all with the fans.
One more thing…… I looked very carefully at the above photo (I’m a photog) and for me, you can really see the difference between Kopi’s character and DD’s.
In Jack-Handy’s comments above though I think he made some very good observations. Or maybe they aren’t but they just conform more to what I’ve seen, which is that DD made a very quick transition from light hearted kid, to someone who acts as if he’s entitled. He may be great, he may be f-ing spectacular. He may be (or he may not be), but I so agree that there was nothing graceful about DD’s game the entirety of last year playoffs included. He scored two goals in Game 2. That’s good. But it doesn’t represent a season.
One more thing…… I looked very carefully at the above photo (I’m a photog) and for me, you can really see the difference between Kopi’s character and DD’s.
Interesting. But what hand does he wipe with?
Booger in Revenge of the Nerds
Wait till this year.
by Quisp on Aug 5, 2011 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I suspect that before the Weber signing the number was between $6m and $7m with DL leaning more toward the 6 but maybe willing to sign at 6.5. So the Doughty camp decided to wait on the Weber arbitration to see if they could get something closer to 7.
So now I think that $6.8 is likely the magic #.
But like Jack said, what do I know?
As I keep saying related to this negotiation, "not that we're there yet, but --"
if he is inclined to hold-out, my inclination would be to call his bluff, see if he’s willing to sit out a year (he has till 12-1 to sign or can’t play this season). in the meantime, there’s more room for Hickey, Voynov, Deslauriers, Martinez and Muzzin in camp. and that’s nothing but good.
I don’t want him to hold-out. i want to be just overly-worried about nothing.
Wait till this year.
Oddly, I'm not worried
If he holds out, then he does… As Quisp says, we’re plenty deep in D prospects… Think Voynov finally might get a shot if that happens…
The more you drink, the less gruesome I look.
Barca Blaugranes- SB Nation's FC Barcelona blog
@shadowking011
Indeed
I played around on CapGeek in the flash application doing “what-if” stuff on hockey without Doghnuts theme…
Doesn’t look that bad. When I run a 8D 13F lineup with Lokti/Westy as the rotation on F and a couple kids on D to complement Whiskey, we are still a powerhouse AND have $10M in the bank of cap.
Wouldn’t mind seeing what Voynov has to offer or if the Hickster is ready for primetime.
by Cirtes on Aug 5, 2011 3:29 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
alright.... no more comments on photos
but I would say this….. if he does hold out, that can’t bode well for his future with the team.
Maybe better a holdout than the arbitration that Shea Weber went thru, but still, it can’t be good for his relationship with DL or the fans.
http://spectorshockey.net/wordpress/2011/08/06/nhl-free-agent-news-august-6-2011/
As Lyle Richardson pointed out this morning at the above link, in the salary cap era, there haven’t been too many holdouts, and almost always, these things gets resolved. Could it take until September like Bobby Ryan last year? Sure, but Doughty will sign eventually before the season starts. What else is going to do? Join Moller and Holloway in Sweden?
Yep.
The sides have exchanged contract ideas (even if DL’s method involved letting them stew for a few weeks waiting for a call back) and they are in dialogue. This dust-up is all over a comment about the state of negotiations a month ago.
As much as I’d like to see Voynov and Hicks get more minutes, we still need someone to take over the top pairing. Before anyone says JJ, he’s not a gamble I want to take. But I’m not worried, since I think a deal will get done.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
by Niesy on Aug 6, 2011 7:25 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Let's face it......
….not only are the Kings not a Stanley Cup contender without Doughty, they are probably not even a playoff team in the West……he is your franchise player, he knows it, Lombardi knows it, and a deal will get done……
….of course we could also trade him for Tomas Kaberle, who savvy Leaf fans insist is the greatest defenseman since Eddie Shore; but we’d have to toss in Kopi, Brown & a # 1 to even up the deal….just need to figure out who Kaberle plays for these days….
Kings are a playoff team, even without Doughty
There’s a reason some really good D prospects are kept down at Manchester, we’re very deep at the blue line… Offensively is where they’ll miss him, but Mike Richards should ease the pain a little…
The more you drink, the less gruesome I look.
Barca Blaugranes- SB Nation's FC Barcelona blog
@shadowking011
The Kings probably are a playoff team without Doughty. But I think they’re a lower seed playoff team – like the last two seasons without him. No matter how good the D prospects are, you cannot replace your #1 defensemen in terms of Time on Ice, who plays five on five against the others top players, plays the powerplay and the penalty kill with a rookie. And as Nisey points out above, JJ is not ready for that role, and probably never will be. With Doughty, I think the Kings can compete with the best in the West, and may well give San Jose a run for the Pacific division title.
I want them to challenge for contender status, not just be a playoff team.
Maybe if we had Schenn to develop instead of Richards, I’d think differently; but the future is now.
In Dinglebarn We Trust -- JftC
That’s a good point. Lombardi has been deliberately shortening the time horizon over the last couple of years. I think he thinks the future is pretty much right now, also.
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
Yep, agree with both of you. The Richards trade means the time to win is now, not later. And to win now, you need Doughty.
Brayden Schenn is 19. Mike Richards is 26. We still got time.
For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.
by Nut on Aug 8, 2011 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions
That actually emphasizes the point, I think, since they were traded for each other. Advancing the time horizon by 7 years is a fairly strong bet, even though Richards is probably just entering his prime.
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
Schenn was called the best prospect in all of hockey last year by the Hockey News. You do not trade him away for someone seven years older if your goal is to win at some point in the down the line. You do it to win now. I’m not saying it’s next year or never for the Kings – they do indeed have time – but real progress has to be shown immediately. Another lower seed playoff berth, followed by a quick elimination, is no longer acceptable.
Exactly so. And in a way, I think this should give us some comfort as to how things will play out over the next month. I don’t think that Lombardi trades away Schenn to get Richards unless he feels that the team is ready to win, and one quality player at the height of his powers could put you over the top. And I find it hard to believe that he would feel that way unless he was confident that Doughty would come around — not holding out — and play a key role on the team this coming season.
Let’s not forget that the Kings have something to do with the pace of negotiations, too. If things are quiet and slow right now, Dean is at least partly responsible. Who knows? Maybe he has decided to play a little game of chicken, knowing that he will have Drew’s rights come what may, and watch for beads of sweat forming on Meehan’s brow.
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
Major News!!
I’m not sure if they’re trying to take the spotlight away from DD or if they are simply extremely disappointed after the Nucks seven game loss in the finals…… but it seems the greenmen…. or is it Green Men (?) are considering a change of allegiance to So. Calif.
http://framework.latimes.com/2011/08/02/us-open-of-surfing/#/25
Oops.... sorry....
You have to see the 25th photo. I thought it would go straight there (how embarrassing). Only for the diehards.
Found a way to make it work
To bail myself out of this predicament….
So you click on the link… but then manually you have to change the end of the link by adding on #/25 – Then it will work without having to scroll thru the first 25 photos. For those interested in surfing it’s worth seeing all the photos….. for those interested only in the Green Men, just add on the tag.
For those interested in neither……… just drop the whole thing :-)
I probably won’t attempt this again soon Quisp.
Thank you Rudy
…………….. anyway, what were we saying? Oh yeah, Drew Doughty. Is he still playing hockey?
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