What I Wished For, What I Got
by Quisp on Sep 30, 2011 3:47 PM PDT
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Back in July, I imagined the following (forwards only) roster:
2011-12 Kings (FREE INSIDE! Gagne!) - Jewels From The Crown
Dustin Penner - Anze Kopitar - Justin Williams
Simon Gagne - Mike Richards - Dustin Brown
Jarret Stoll - Andrei Loktionov - Trevor Lewis
Kyle Clifford - Brad Richardson - Scott Parse/Kevin Westgarth
Of course, there have been a few additions since then. Ethan Moreau, Trent Hunter (signed today) are in; Loktionov (sent to Manchester a few minutes ago) is out. Dwight King is still hanging around camp, but for what purpose, I don't know. With the signing of Hunter, the Kings are going to have to cut loose one forward who is not waiver-exempt.
And it's pretty obvious that player is Scott Parse. I would be surprised if he survived waivers, but his trade value is compromised thanks to (in my opinion) incredibly bad luck. Too bad, because he had a great rookie season, and the five games he played last year he led the team in PTS/60 and/or G/60, maybe both, I forget. Who cares? He's all but gone. Maybe we'll luck out and he'll survive waivers and can go to Manchester. (Is it too late to send him down on a conditioning loan? I'll have to look that up. That's a good idea if it's allowed, though I suspect you can't do a conditioning loan after a player has already come back from injury and played -- WAIT, we sent Schenn down last year for basically no reason...so maybe this is doable...)
Anyway, the forward lines look to be:
Penner - Kopitar - Williams
Gagne - Richards - Brown
Moreau - Stoll - Hunter
Clifford - Lewis - Richardson
(Westgarth, Colin Fraser)
King will get sent down before the team leaves for Europe. Colin Fraser...IR? That makes sense. But when he comes back, what then? Carry 14 forwards? Okay, but that means carrying only 7 defensemen, and that causes some other issues.
Willie Mitchell - Drew Doughty (!)
(Viatcheslav Voynov, Davis Drewiske, Thomas Hickey, Jake Muzzin)
If Fraser goes on IR, the Kings can keep two defensemen in the press box (8 in total). It sounds like Muzzin is hurt, so he will go on IR...
And that leaves Voynov, Hickey and Drewiske. Only two of those guys can go to Europe. And then, when Fraser comes off IR (which he isn't on, yet; I'm assuming this is about to happen), one of the remaining two will have to be cut (or else waive Fraser and send him down).
My hunch is Voynov stays, Hickey is sent down and Drewiske (due to not being waiver-exempt and being a cheap press-box option) lives to fight another day.
My preference, though, is that Lombardi sends Drewiske somewhere for a late-round pick, and lets both Hickey and Voynov stay. Is that irrational? Probably. I don't care.
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If the third line is seriously Moreau-Stoll-Hunter I will flip the fuck out.
And that leaves Voynov, Hickey and Drewiske. Only two of those guys can go to Europe. And then, when Fraser comes off IR (which he isn’t on, yet; I’m assuming this is about to happen), one of the remaining two will have to be cut (or else waive Fraser and send him down).
This sounds right: Hickey cut now, with Voynov & Drewiske up until you can figure out what’s up with Fraser.
If the third line is seriously Moreau-Stoll-Hunter I will flip the fuck out.
1. with joy?
2. what else could the line be?
Well, when you go in to camp hoping for this:
Jarret Stoll – Andrei Loktionov – Trevor Lewis
And instead you you get:
Moreau-Stoll-Hunter
How can you not be upset? I think Clifford will probably get the call on the 3rd line and Moreau will play 4RW with Richardson & Lewis. At least, I hope.
Clifford
…deserves the 3rd line. He played like a 2nd liner in the playoffs last year. Put him with a guy with a shot (Stoll) and add even Hunter and we’ve got a formidable 3rd line.
Just please don’t ever put out a 4th line of Moreau-Lewis/Richardson-Westgarth. I think I might vomit.
the thing that bothers me is that it would have been so easy (and obvious) to do
moreau – stoll – richardson or lewis
clifford – loktionov – lewis or richardson
the idea being that lewis and loktionov is a better option than lewis and hunter
but i guess not
i will be seriously irritated if stoll re-signs
If I’m channeling my inner Terry Murray, I think right now what is happening is that Parse is going to get a long, hard look and a chance to play his way off the team (which right now he is doing a good job of). They want to be damned sure they don’t cut him loose and have him turn into another Moulson or Purcell.
I think when and if they finally let him go, you’ll see Loktionov recalled and something more like what you are looking for (me too),
Pig's ear if I've ever seen one.
Friggin’ Quisp just said that to get attention…hopefully…
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
by USHA#17 on Sep 30, 2011 9:49 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
My preferred bottom 6 at this point (subject to me changing my mind in 5 minutes):
Clifford – Stoll – Lewis
Moreau – Richardson – Hunter/Westgarth
I would REALLY like to see Lewis on the third line, and since he is pretty terrible at faceoffs anyway, it makes sense to try him out on the third line RW.
I’m not too stressed about it though. By the second month of the season TM will have tried every possible combination in the bottom 6.
by HawaiiKingsFan on Sep 30, 2011 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
The only problem with that 3rd line is that they’d score less than our 3rd line did last year, if that’s possible.
Yeah, I would prefer for Richardson to play RW on Stoll’s line and for Lewis or Loki to center the 4th line.
"We will come with our guns blazing, and we just blazed." - Tim Leiweke
by DodgerBlueBalls on Oct 1, 2011 10:30 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I think Drewiske's eventual fate is marked
But I have my doubts about keeping both Voynov and Hickey at this point, just because it means one of them will have to sit rather than play. Not sure that’s in either’s best interests right now.
I’m not sold on Moreau playing regularly, but I have to admit, Hunter has played like a man desperate to earn a spot in the lineup so far. Gotta give him credit for that.
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
Hunter?
Someone please tell me why we sent Lokti down and kept Westgarth, Hunter, Moreau? Look at our other 3 lines. The Stoll line does not need two bruisers. The one thing that T Murray’s system requires to score goals is speed and puck movement. Yes, you get your grind it out dirty goals, but Doughty and Kopitar showed last year multiple times the odd-man rush is where we score goals quickly. Lokti and Voynov provide that. Why put ourselves in position to play just like we did last year when it was stagnant and boring?
so that terry murray can get fired by christmas?
by Quisp on Sep 30, 2011 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Like button
If there was one, you’d get my click. I love what Terry Murray has done in support of Quick/Bernier’s development. They would have had serious difficulties maturing without the support on the back end that they got from the system. But frankly, the Kings are unwatchable unless they’re playing a team without legitimate size. Against a big roster our “grind from behind” method of scoring goals is not necessary with the firepower we have.
Like button – If there was one, you’d get my click
There is one. Click on actions and then Rec.
"We will come with our guns blazing, and we just blazed." - Tim Leiweke
by DodgerBlueBalls on Sep 30, 2011 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I too was surprised to see Loktionov sent down, and would be equally surprised to see him stay down in Manchester for long. He is no doubt being groomed for C3 next year, but I think he can do that equally well as this year’s C4 while sliding Lewis to right wing. And I agree with Dr. C’s comments about Hunter and Moreau.
So now that Doughty is settled, I guess the main topic will be are the Kings playing the right offensive system, and is Terry Murray the right coach for a team that has some skill and firepower up front so they don’t have to play the “safety first” dump and chase game they played last year?
I would also agree that Voynov is ( or at least should be ), and that Drewiske and Greene should be seriously shopped.
Thing about Greene
If Greene is gone who fills the “big body” role on defense? .
Greene 232 (plays the body)
Drewiske 220 (plays soft)
Scuderi 219 (not a hitting style)
After Scuderi the size on defense drops off, ranging from 212 – 202.
Voynov is listed at 5’9" (and 5’11") but never weighing above 199#. A mobile but small defense might prove to be a weakness. Easy to wear down in a playoff series.
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
Muzzin?
"After months of reading other people’s catchy sigs (like yours), I decided I needed one, too." -- DougX
by VoluminousTuna on Oct 1, 2011 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Murrays system is grinding. All 4 lines pushed the offensive play dot to boards last season, and spent more time cycling than Lance Armstrong. No enough play dot to dot, because Murray is obsessed with puck management, and defense first.
That was for hunter but ended up at the bottom.
The reason he wants bruisers on that line is because he’s always wanted size or a player who plays a heavy game on that line. Loti is not that type of player. Neither is Stoll, but Stoll is a good defensive player with backchecking speed. Lokti isn’t that type of player either.
24 by sunday (which includes three goalies for the trip, so that's effectively 23)
the real deadline would be by right before the first game of the season, but for logistical reasons the kings have chosen to make the moves before they leave. that’s my understanding anyway.
Completely off topic...
But our favorite Swedish goalie is having a rough go since leaving the Kings. Puckdaddy has a snippet about Erik Ersberg’s recent struggles. Poor guy, I always liked EE.
What do you guys see as a ceiling for Loktionov? Maybe I’m getting too optimistic but is this a first line 75-85 point center in a few years?
possibly
I think much depends on his durability. He’s had serious shoulder injuries each of the last two seasons.
But the talent is there. And Murray has said that he’s getting stronger physically. He won’t be #1C as long as Kopitar is here, but I can see him becoming a more than adequate #2C.
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
Corey Pronman has him as a top 10 prospect.
Here is a couple of helpful links:
With two wingers already in Sweden...
…maybe they could get a Holloway-Loktionov-Moller line going if Manchester is too appalling?
by maxwellian_demon on Sep 30, 2011 6:37 PM PDT reply actions
yeah, it's fine.
in three years you can have toffoli-lokti-moller be your “third” line and the first two lines will draw the tough assignments.
Hickey
Quisp, do you think there’s any chance that he is playing tonight to show him off to other teams so he can be traded?
Moreau-Stoll-Hunter is a sight for sore eyes… Clifford-Stoll-Lewis is much better…
Move Richardson to 4C… As much as I hate Kevin Westgarth, I’d rather he plays than Hunter… Moreau-Richardson-Westgarth…
The more you drink, the less gruesome I look.
Barca Blaugranes
@shadowking011
On second thought (and after getting sober), I'd rather play Hunter than Westgarth
Still on the 4th line though…
The more you drink, the less gruesome I look.
Barca Blaugranes
@shadowking011
Moreau-Stoll-Hunter is a sight for sore eyes
I think either you were drunk or don’t quite understand that phrase…
For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.
by Nut on Oct 1, 2011 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I may be the one guy on the Hunter bandwagon
Moreau…not so much. Still, I’d like the look of a bottom six with:
Clifford – Stoll – Lewis
Parse/Moreau – Richardson – Hunter/Westgarth
though Parse is likely going to get cut, get picked up by the Predators, and score 30 goals in one game against LA
"And in net, number 39, DAAAAAAN CLOOOOUTIER"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
Off topic, but...
Peter Harrold played almost 25 minutes tonight. I miss him, but he was assed out much like Parse is going to be.
"After months of reading other people’s catchy sigs (like yours), I decided I needed one, too." -- DougX
Way to go Peter!
Parse will survive I think. Could go the way of the dodo, but I think he’ll survive.
Ponder n research moment for Quisp
Based on my traditionally uber-weak reading of the CBA, Hunter should be Waiver Exempt this year, on the seldom used rule of veteran player who was injured the previous 2 seasons.
He has the NHL games played.
He played 17 games last season.
He played 78 games combined last two seasons (less than 80 total).
He waiver exempt by my reading of the CBA.
I figure this was a factor in the contract signing.
Bottom line if my figuring is correct, might give Parse some wiggle room.
by Cirtes on Oct 1, 2011 9:10 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Gotta admit, I’m loving’ these defensive pairings tonight:
Mitchell-Voynov
Martinez-Johnson
Scuderi-Greene
I assume Scuderi and Johnson will skate a few shifts together to keep their minutes up. Otherwise, Scuderi and Greene take every defensive draw and Martinez-Johnson play against weak competition. Basically what Murray did against the Canucks in the playoffs 2 years ago but with Scuderi instead of O’Donnell and Martinez instead of Randy Jones.
How dare you dig up long-buried memories of the Johnson-Jones pairing.
"After months of reading other people’s catchy sigs (like yours), I decided I needed one, too." -- DougX
by VoluminousTuna on Oct 1, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Knowing Murray, the lines probably won’t be set all season. He’s still got two exhibition games to “finalize” the lines for the start fo the regular season.
I’m suprised you think Parse is going to to be cut. In the two pre-season games I watched, he was indeed invisible. But DL was pretty high on him, he’s coming off pretty much a season long injury, and then he’ll get cut before he sees any regular season action? I’m praying we don’t see Purcell part 2.
What I wished for, I got
Then how ’bout wishing me a blow-job and some season tickets behind the net?
wouldn't the Kings just cut Fraser if it came down to it?
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
right, when he comes off
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Oct 1, 2011 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Side Note
Kingsvision interviewed Hextal regarding DD return.
Discussing the power play Hextal was asked how the coaches and staff felt. Hextal replied
“…I talked to Mark and he’s pretty excited.”
Wonder if this means Hardy will be running the power play.
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
This just seems silly
to even discuss letting an asset like Parse go when you could let Voynov go back to Manchester for the time being and then try to work out a deal for Drewiskie. Or just let him go – he’s obviously not in future plans.
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
Edmonton is in dire need of D-men. Greene and Drewiske to Edm. for a 1st?
by m_and_m on Oct 2, 2011 3:51 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
just drewiske for a late pick would be fine
by Quisp on Oct 3, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
this
tried to rec this but the button is not functioning
"Not in your wildest alcoholic nightmare would you ever imagine such events unfolding!" Bill King
by Buck Turgidson on Oct 3, 2011 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
I like that idea; it probably would have been best for everyone involved if it had been made last season. DD2 would have had his chance to start afresh with another team, and the Kings still had Harrold as an insurance policy.
But I don’t think it could happen right now, when the waiver wire is flooded with players of DD2’s calibre as teams make their last cuts. Well, maybe those guys aren’t quite as good as he is, since the Kings are unusually deep at D, but you could get almost equal value for free by claiming someone who has been sent down without being waiver-exempt. The supply-demand balance just isn’t right for the Kings to get anything for him in trade.
"I think you just outed yourself as Dean Lombardi. I knew it all along." — Rudy Kelly
My feeling is...
The first 2 lines will go like this:
Gagne – Kopitar – Williams
Penner – Richards – Brown
The last two games, Gagne was playing alot better with Kopitar & Williams then with Richards & Brown. I agree about the 3rd line of Moreau, Stoll & Hunter. the 4th line might possibly be a revolving door. I see the 4th line as the way Quisp has it (Clifford – Lewis – Richardson) against speedier teams. But for a team with size, it’ll probably be:
Clifford – Richardson – Westgarth
But that is my opinion
P.S. I totally agree with Quisp about the defense.
"Soo many games, soo little time"
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