Trade Deadline: Rick Nash open thread
by Quisp on Feb 14, 2012 2:20 PM PST
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Last week, the Blue Jackets said Rick Nash wasn't going to be traded. No way. No how. This week? The Blue Jackets are fielding offers. Nash says "for now I'm a Blue Jacket." I'm pretty sure that's the exact quote. The usual suspects are naming the Kings as one of the most likely destinations for Nash, because, well, the Kings are one of the most likely destinations for every forward on Earth. We considered the Nash possibilities in some detail a few days ago. I ran a poll asking people to choose between a Jarret Stoll / Alec Martinez for Jeff Carter deal, and various packages for Nash (all including Jack Johnson and Jonathan Bernier, and one of Dustin Brown, Andrei Loktionov or Tyler Toffoli). I ended up favoring none of the proposals I came up with. The poll favored the Carter deal. None of the above came in second.
Since that post, Stoll got injured, Slava Voynov was sent down, Dwight King and Jordan Nolan made their debuts, Loktionov started scoring, Simon Gagne started skating, and Dustin Penner was a healthy scratch for two consecutive games.
What about Brown and Bernier for Nash?
King - Richards - Nolan
Penner - Fraser - Richardson
Worth it? I actually don't know. But that's why it's an open thread.
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i know most centers can play wing...
but does nash? right… left… either or??? moreover, can he play it well? [that’s considering if he does]
When the kick out your front door how you gonna come? With your hands above your head or on the trigger of your gun?
i am really stupid...
i thought nash was a center… and i don’t even know why.
wow.
When the kick out your front door how you gonna come? With your hands above your head or on the trigger of your gun?
i was talking about nash...
but thinking carter… took my brain awhile to catch up to my fingers.
When the kick out your front door how you gonna come? With your hands above your head or on the trigger of your gun?
I’d be fine with that trade. In fact, it sounds pretty good. The only change I’d make to the lines you put up, Quisp, would be switching Penner and Clifford.
Pride = Passion = Power
If you looking for more puck possession time by the 3rd line I would keep Penner away from Lewis and Loktionov.
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
True enough, but they do need someone on that line who can finish regularly. But hell, every line could use more of that
Pride = Passion = Power
by bigballamike on Feb 14, 2012 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
Helene Elliot has already denounced it. I don’t think there’s a snowball’s chance in hell we deal Penner. His trade value is at an all-time low.
"After months of reading other people’s catchy sigs (like yours), I decided I needed one, too." -- DougX
by VoluminousTuna on Feb 14, 2012 3:36 PM PST up reply actions
Howson would have a really tough time selling that explanation to the remaining fan base, let alone saving his job.
They can probably find someone to make up the 10 extra goals Nash would give them over Brown for less than the $4.625 difference in cap hits they have.
by RudyKelly on Feb 14, 2012 2:31 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I just don’t see Nash coming in and becoming the scoring machine we know he’s capable of, much like Kovalchuk has not been the revelation that both we and New Jersey were willing to overpay for.
"After months of reading other people’s catchy sigs (like yours), I decided I needed one, too." -- DougX
by VoluminousTuna on Feb 14, 2012 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
@Rudy and Voluminous
Right you guys. Good thinking by both of you.
On top of which, it doesn’t seem to me at least that the Kings are like ‘one player away’.
When has anyone come here and done what they did in the past?
Since Gretz or maybe Palffy but everyone else has been a shadow of their former self.
Richards…not so great but I’m hoping it is the after effects of concussion
Penner…hah
Gagne….moments of niceness but overall not really
Hell…Brown, Stoll, Kopi, JW…everyone is missing the net this year.
I like Nash but just beware of what you wish for.
Nash: 1.82 p/60
Brown: 1.28 p/60
Not enough of a differential to justify a trade. But also I think that it’s not even realistic to talk about Brown.
I think the most realistic trade is something like JJ, Bernier, + some combo of picks, clifford, vey, toffoli, or weal for Nash, Sanford and Clitsome.
yeah but the Kings Point Suppression Factor™ makes it about even
by Robert_P. on Feb 14, 2012 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Brown gets those numbers playing with Kopitar. I’d expect Nash’s numbers to escalate if he gets to consistently play with a center like Kopitar or even Richards.
That's good Rick
Exxxxcellent…..to be heretofore referred to as the KPSF
not sure what you mean exactly or maybe i’m doing math wrong but….assuming that they each play 15 ES minutes a game for 82 games that’s a difference of 11 points. i could be wrong as I just did math v quick while at work
40 Points?
at .54 per 60, that’s 44 points…
Question(s): Is “p/60” 60 minutes played (ie an average of 12 minutes/game so 5 games)?
Is Rick Knickle’s number really just an 8 point per season difference?
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
If I’m the Jackets I don’t take Bernier because he’s not proven a a starter. I’d demand Quick, Brown or Scuderi (maybe both), and a first round pick.
And if I’m the Kings I do that deal in a heartbeat! Bernier can start for the Kings now and they’d be just fine, especially with the extra pop in the lineup that Nash would provide. Losing Scuderi would hurt but he’s replaceable. I’ve been begging for Brown to be moved for a while now so I’d applaud his inclusion in any trade.
For a team that would essentially be rebuilding if they trade Nash, I don’t know why they would want Scuderi.
I’d kinda be surprised if the Kings really are on Nash’s list though. No superstars want to play in LA. See Smyth. See Richards, Brad. See Kovalchuk. See Hossa. etc etc
oh yeah... come to LA
and watch your stats plummet as well as your net value at your next contract negotiation.
When the kick out your front door how you gonna come? With your hands above your head or on the trigger of your gun?
Perhaps
but you have to figure in the improvement in their Corsi and whatever other unique esoteric stat systems are out there….. to show that the other team is in fact getting less SOG during said players TOI
Their Corsi doesn’t even go up. I know that was a joke but it’s still sad.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
by Niesy on Feb 14, 2012 5:38 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Smyth, a superstar? Coulda fooled me. :o
Besides, he did waive his NTC to come here and stayed for 2 seasons, so your are only partially correct there. Word is he also just refused to be dealt to NYR, so the idea that his true comfort zone is in the Frozen North (as opposed to Not LA) just might be valid.
"I see my life flashing before my eyes... and it's boring!." — Gumball Watterson
Nash likes playing in Columbus he’s stated he likes not being in a big market. Going to LA he wouldn’t have to deal with media, plus the weather is nice. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Kings are a team he’d like to be traded too.
Sad Kings fan, drinking helps @lafreak331
http://onegirlonepuck.blogspot.com
Considering that they will have the 1st overall pick in this June's draft…
It seems insane for Columbus to deal Nash. If they can just find a goalie on the free agent market they would have a fairly solid base with a healthy Carter and Wiz to go along with Nash.
What a poorly run franchise. Sucks for the people of central Ohio!
That’s true, and that’s how Howson feels, apparently. If Nash gets traded, it will be on orders from ownership, which wants to blow the team up.
I agree that Columbus on paper is not a basket case, and they’re really not that far away from being competitive again.
"I see my life flashing before my eyes... and it's boring!." — Gumball Watterson
I agree. If Nash did come up for sale, I think it would have to be on orders from ownership. Money would be their highest motivation over getting equal value I think.
They are going to spend $62,881,195 this season for a 30th ranked team (not to be confused with a team that spends $63,610,654 for a 30th ranked offense).
Would Columbus consider
Johnson
Bernier
Kozun
1st Rounder
Many are concerned for having enough cap space to re-sign Quick, and rightfully so. But He has a year after this one on his contract, after which only Kopitar, Richards, Brown, Williams, Westgarth, Doughty, and Greene will be under contract (assuming JJ moves in the deal).
The move would assume that many of the kids will be ready to step into full time roles with the big club in order to have 5 players take up over $33MM (including Quick).
Also, who knows what the Cap will be at by then. It’s not that insurmountable.
I agree with this. I don’t think our undersized forwards (Kozun, Azevedo) have any significant trade value no matter how hard we want them to.
"After months of reading other people’s catchy sigs (like yours), I decided I needed one, too." -- DougX
by VoluminousTuna on Feb 14, 2012 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
Somebody at the Canon think…
The Jackets are willing to give him up for Nash, Hunter, Penner, and a pick..
hahahahahah
I know Columbus’s GM is stupid, but if they will fall for that, please please please do it. I think Bernier is going to be a great NHL goalie but in that scenario he’s tradeable!
My vote, none of the above. Nash because he is a major minus player and would cost too much. Carter…only, only because of his contract length.
Anyway, if Carter and Richards couldn’t do it in Philly, what makes anyone think they can do it here?
Are Teemu Selanne and Melanie Griffith Twins?
Your snark is only partially successful (which means, really, that you might as well have saved yourself the trouble). Kurri and Gretzky did take the Kings to the Finals and, arguably, came within an illegal stick of taking control of that series.
Getting to the Finals only to lose under somewhat bizarre circumstances doesn’t look like the worst fate that could befall this team this season.
"I see my life flashing before my eyes... and it's boring!." — Gumball Watterson
by DougX on Feb 14, 2012 3:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rick Nash is in his 9th year and 28. Most forwards peak at point production between (24-27). It is likely that Nash will never score 40 goals again. It is also likely that his drop off this year in point production is a trend that is likely to continue.
hockeyanalytics.com/Research_files/CareerCurve-Krzywicki.pdf
A minor deal > big deal.
Keep in mind, any trade of JJ leaves Doughty as our #1 offensive d, Voynov #2. Not good.
There’s no need to be committed to Jeff Carter for 15 years or however long he has left on his contract.
Penner and Stoll come off the books next season. (BTW, that’s 7.85 of cap relief)
How about Martinez/another prospect/another pick any if anyone wants to take a bad contract for a decent forward?
I feel like this getting down on Doughty thing has subsided. JJ has been good on offense this season, but the defensive woes are still there. What’s wrong with having Doughty, Voynov, and Martinez as our offensive defensemen?
"After months of reading other people’s catchy sigs (like yours), I decided I needed one, too." -- DougX
by VoluminousTuna on Feb 14, 2012 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
Voynov, and Martinez can’t cover 200 lbs forwards as well, or meet those types along the walls physically. As far as stay at homes, we’re OK, but JJ, and DD are different.
I know many don’t like JJ because he gets burned, but he’s not getting burned by 3rd and 4rth line players every night, but top 6 forwards because of the defensive assignments he gets. Would Voynov, or Martinez really cover those same players any better than JJ?
Voynov Paired with Mitchell
is not facing Top Six forwards?
Yes.
But not as much.
They are also facing those match ups in more offensive situations than JJ did, and not so much on defensive assignments in criticle situations. Here is the H2H numbers for last game, and if you look at the amount of time JJ spent covering Benn-Ott-Vincour you’ll see that he covered them more than any other King on the ice.
http://www.timeonice.com/H2H1112.html?GameNumber=20831&submit=Go
He was matched up with the Ribeiro line at first… until Johnson let the puck go right through him to Eriksson for an easy tap-in. Then they switched his pairing and Doughty’s because Ribeiro’s line was killing the Kings.
I don’t really feel like JJ handles strong forwards that well either. It’s not like he’s particularly strong at sealing players into the boards or anything.
VV does a good job of putting his body into players and gaining control of 50/50 pucks.
I think we can afford to lose him in a trade for something that gives us an upgrade elsewhere.
Keep in mind, any trade of JJ leaves Doughty as our #1 offensive d, Voynov #2. Not good.
Voynov is already a better NHL defenseman than JJ.
If I were King I would just trade JJ straight up-for the best possible forward I could get for him.
by Robert_P. on Feb 14, 2012 3:36 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
yep...
i agree.
When the kick out your front door how you gonna come? With your hands above your head or on the trigger of your gun?
Voynov is already a better NHL defenseman than JJ.
I doubt they would have sent him down to Manchester if this was true.
His defensive play is bad. There are all kinds of fancy stats I could drag out to show this, but I want to focus on plus/minus. Plus/minus is a difficult statistic to use – over the short-term, so many things impact it that it can be wildly unreliable. Over the long-term however, these things tend to balance out, and a strong pattern says a lot about the player. There is such a strong pattern in Johnson’s case. Johnson started his Kings career in 2006-07, going minus-5 over five games. Here are his plus/minus numbers by year since then, along with his rank among Kings’ defensemen:
•2007-08: Minus-19, dead last
•2008-09: Minus-18, dead last
•2009-10: Minus-11, dead last
•2010-11: Minus-21, dead last
•2011-12: Minus-10, dead last
•Total, 2007-present: Minus-83, dead last (next closest: Rob Blake at minus-19)
2010-11, the year Johnson got his massive contract extension, really stands out: the next worst Kings defenseman was minor-league call-up Jake Muzzin, who went minus-2 over 11 games. Davis Drewiske, with a minus-1 over 38 games, was the only other minus on the team’s blue line. Add in the fact that according to behindthenet.ca, Johnson has never ranked as one of the team’s top-two defensemen in difficulty of opposition, and there’s a word for that trend: damning.
http://oilersnation.com/2012/2/13/could-jack-johnson-be-a-fit-for-the-oilers
He’s crept into barely positive possession territory, around breakeven, but the team is in the o-zone much more often when he’s not on the ice. So this is the downside mixed with his PP scoring talent, which is considerable.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
by Niesy on Feb 14, 2012 4:29 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Doesn’t who he covers dictate how much possession is really exceptable. If he was covering a 3rd line those numbers would look bad, but last game he spent most of his ice time covering Benn-Ott-Vincour, and those guys are gonna push you back because their Dallas’ top line.
Doesn’t who he covers dictate how much possession is really exceptable. If he was covering a 3rd line those numbers would look bad, but last game he spent most of his ice time covering Benn-Ott-Vincour, and those guys are gonna push you back because their Dallas’ top line.
It’s something to consider, for sure — but it’s not acceptable to me when other d-men with comparable cap hits and competition do better on a regular basis. He’s going to stay a minus player if that doesn’t improve dramatically.
Also…DD and whomever his partner is (Mitchell/Scuderi) have gotten the lion’s share of top line shutdown assignments, and for several seasons now. Voynov and Mitchell excelled while covering the top job, albeit for a brief period.
I look at what’s happened the last three years, and think JJ is not the best choice for that level of comp.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
The qual/comp is comparable, but the zone starts are skewed a bit over the last few years. Under TM, JJ was always in more tough defensive situations against tougher offensive players, and in more situations where the other team is bound to score.
TM switched his pairings almost at the drop of a hat, depending on the situation, but I have always woundered why JJ is the one on the ice more than any player in those situations.
When you look at every players +/-, no other D men even matched his +/- and yet he’s not alone on the ice when those goals are scored. Under Murray, JJ took those situations more, and his partners switched.
Murray did the same with DD offensively, and that’s why no D men matched his +/- either. The guys he did switch around were about even with each other because he spread them out.
Under Murray, JJ’s +/- didn’t matter in the grand scheme of things because JJ got points on the power play.
I should add that the goal differential 5 on 5 wasn’t good, so the guys on the ice defensively are going to suffer more than the guys on the ice offensively.
When you look at how skewed JJ’s +/- is from everybodys numbers on the team, it just makes sense where JJ was on the ice, and where DD was, and where TM used them 5 on 5.
The fact that we didn’t even score the league average left no way to bring up the minus side of it for the guy who’s in that situation the most.
This is just my idiotic thinking, but it makes more sense than just saying he sucks because I see a lot of talent in this guy.
Under TM, JJ was always in more tough defensive situations against tougher offensive players, and in more situations where the other team is bound to score.
CORSI QoC:
11-12: 4th toughest among defensemen (over 30 games played)
10-11: 3rd
09-10: 6th
08-09: 4th
Zone Starts
11-12: 49% (2nd toughest)
10-11: 51.5 (5th)
09-10: 56.1 (6th)
08-09: 50.8 (4th)
Oh, I hear you. My issues with him are that I think his strengths are counterbalanced by these other issues — and we don’t know how much he will improve in the future.
He has tougher zone starts this year, which is not too surprising, as he should be expected to be able to handle them better than a rookie. That is a good point. He also has positive zone finish for the first time ever.
On the flip side, even adjusting his Corsi for zone start effects, the numbers aren’t sparkling. And his zone starts were better in prior years (51% last year and 56% in ‘09-10, same as Doughty) but he didn’t have more 5v5 offense like you would expect.
His plus minus issues can be explained to me by the fact that he’s doesn’t have a track record of scoring much at even strength, and is still on the ice for too many shots and chances against. For instance, he and Doughty had goalies provide the exact same SV% when they were on the ice last year—but Doughty was a plus player because the puck was in the offensive zone more consistently. I don’t hate JJ, he seems driven and dedicated and genuinely sweet. Is top pairing in his future? I don’t know. Maybe.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
I hear ya. I wonder where he will end up myself sometimes, and even though I love the guy, and do stick up for him more than I should, sometimes he leaves me thinking “bonehead”.
Well I think as people who watch him all the time we are more familiar with his positive side than just the stats people. He can launch people into the air with a hit and score gorgeous goals. He is really making progress this year…I just want the whole process to go faster
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
by Niesy on Feb 15, 2012 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Voynov was sent down because he was the only waiver-exempt D, I think. He’s coming right back up and into the lineup after the trade deadline, when the roster limits disappear.
"I see my life flashing before my eyes... and it's boring!." — Gumball Watterson
by DougX on Feb 14, 2012 8:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
"because, well, the Kings are one of the most likely destinations for every forward on Earth."
BOLD prediction: Nash doesn’t come to the Kings, Lombardi gets called out or being a wuss of a GM and not willing to make “the big trade.”
You wanna tell me that to mah face?!
by uvgt2bkdnme on Feb 14, 2012 4:05 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Any Deal
Any deal that gets Nash without giving up Kopitar, Richards, Doughty, and Quick is a good deal. I would do a 5-1, 6-1 deal to get Nash. It won’t feel good until Nash picks someone’s pocket, dekes, and scores. Then everyone will forget about what was traded away to get him.
And then, when all the good young guys on the team leave because we’re paying Rick Nash $7.8 million dollars to score 30 goals a season, we’ll all say, “Hey, remember that one time Nash picked that dude’s pocket, deked, and then scored? …That was cool.”
by RudyKelly on Feb 14, 2012 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
they need an upgrade on the wings but look at the rest of those lines!
That top line better have Nash be a perennial 40 goal scorer as he ages and even then the depth is perilous.
And when did anyone get traded to the Kings and have his scoring INCREASE? Then you’re stuck with a contract that’s stupid as well as unmovable.
Not to mention the good cheap talent sent out the door in order to acquire him
Get Carter instead! This is insane.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
by Niesy on Feb 14, 2012 4:21 PM PST via mobile reply actions
“everyone assumes it’s the Rangers, Kings and one or two other”? Why would Nash want to come to LA, the town where 30 goal scorers go to die?
Nash is Too Expensive
Big Contract + Valuable Assets
After the Richards trade, he Club can afford one or the other, but not both.
I have a great idea
How about if you actually start to concentrate on drafting and developing some talented forwards for once….. especially wingers.
I know they have Toffoli, but he’s a center. Too small to convert to wing. And not like I’d recommend converting MR or Lokti to wing given that neither are really adapted to that.
So yes, it would be far more interesting and far far cheaper to actually do what the best teams in the nhl do…… draft a flippin winger who has some grit (even if it’s not overwhelming) and has something resembling a touch around the net.
Philly has done it, Boston has done it, same w San Jose, Pavelski was drafted in the 7th round, wrt Chiicago, Patrick Sharp even though drafted by Philly was a third round pick, James Neal was drafted in the 2nd round. I mean, if you actually allow for something more than grit and all, the guys are out there to be found. You just have to find em.
Toffoli is a RW and is the around the same size as Wayne Simmonds (2" shorter)
For every moment of triumph, for every instance of beauty, many souls must be trampled.
Even second round picks pan out at abt a 15% success rate — as you might imagine it drops sharply as the rounds progress. The Kings have already beat the odds in a major way with Simmonds, Lokti, Voynov, etc.
Scouts will have their work cut out this year but more than anything need a major dose of luck to find anyone 4th rnd. and beyond
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
by Niesy on Feb 14, 2012 6:13 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Although the secret there, I think, is that Voynov and Loktionov were available that low not because their talent was underestimated, but because other teams assumed that the transfer arrangement with Russia would prevent them from coming over and it wasn’t worth the bother. Lombardi and Solomon did homework there that other teams didn’t. That’s not beating the odds, so much as outworking them.
"I see my life flashing before my eyes... and it's boring!." — Gumball Watterson
Yeah, they definitely don’t waste picks on Russians they’re not sure will come over like other clubs have. Some people are mad about passing on Tarasenko, but I’m not. They do their homework and Tarasenko is another level of risk.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
Off Season
Due nothing.
Almost 30 years now of watching the same show on this channel, trade away too much for too little.
Want to make changes? Do it in the off season, shits not over valued and you have a greater grasp on you cap situation.
Kings free up plenty of space at the end of this year to go after Parise or anyone else they might want.
Don’t pull a Rogie Vachon.
totally agree to wait… for sure. as for Parise, don’t keep your hopes to high…. buzz is that he wants to go to minn where he’s from, or detroit who i think will make every effort to get him, and it’s still close to minn geographically.
Parise
And if Parise wants to go play in the East that is fine too.
I actually think we are fine, drafted a little to deep and too long on defence, but it’s understandable.
Wingers should start to be brought in from the minors and fill some of these rolls.
Still 3 to 5 years out from the total build.
Whatever we do just pray its not the typical panic “trade it all for a fix right NOW!”
So tired of being the Veruca Salt of the NHL.
by kevin_ebel on Feb 14, 2012 7:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
really...
would it be the worst thing in the world if we just said “no” to rick nash…?
variable from deepinsidethekings.com
yes
cause who then are the bloggers gonna fantasize over…. Parise? Well maybe some of them are getting their heads around the fact that he might wanna play back east with less travel, and more scoring (on the Detroit red wings…. Minnesota i’m not so sure about).
the funny thing is that...
eklund…the chronically mad masturbator of the trade rumor fantasy world…probably had to be tasered away from his laptop by his parents and be given a fentanyl IV drip to contain all his c.s. lewis-like machinations that overloaded his prepubescent, mouse lemur of a brain…
variable from deepinsidethekings.com
by variables on Feb 14, 2012 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't really know if it's worth it
As long as we play this tight-checking, defense-first system… There will probably be an uptick in scoring, but not enough to justify the ransom…
And everybody’s gonna be disappointed, pissed and we’re back to where we are now, looking for our next winger…
Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy.
"So what if we're boring?" says Tim Duncan before taking a nap.
GOON
I posted this on LAKi, but it’s too good not to post here too.
In case you haven’t seen the trailer for GOON, check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWYhkViWj98
That last quote is the winner.
Nash for brown would mean a lot more offense, and a lot less defense. Brown is in my opinion our best penalty killer, and he’s amazing at drawing penalties. He’s not the greatest scorer but he’s not a guy you trade.
by lnickerson88 on Feb 15, 2012 1:16 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Agree
Although with our Kings suffer from lack of scoring, obviously we need to improve in that area. Brown is IMO one of our best forwards, I’d argue or most consistent winger (which is what we need). IMO there are so many intangibles he brings … much like Richards.
Our gluttony is in defense & goal, if you need to move assets to look there.
Currently Brown is 3rd in points on the team, with a cap hit of $3,175,000.
Nash’s numbers are inline with Brown’s numbers. Nash’s salary is more than twice that of Brown’s.
Couple Brown’s cap hit, his leadership (my favorite kind, by actions), his work ethics and the intangibles … the guy is just too valueable to move.
Not Sure I Like This Idea
Depends on what you give up. Nash is a great player and certainly would help in the short-term but giving up the farm for a $7.8 million cap hit for the next six seasons is not my idea of a smart move.
If a trade includes Voynov or Loktionov, then it’s a no go in my opinion.
Rich Ramus
So Garrioch said we were on the list of approved teams. (I feel like I should follow that with an obligatory “Garrioch, LOL”). But speculation definitely has LA in the mix.
My primary concern is the cap…so let me ask people. Would you be okay going cheaper on defense and/or possibly losing Quick going forward?
I don’t know what Quick will ask for; under $5 million seems too hopeful to ask for. And then Bernier I assume must be gone in the Nash trade, so we have to go with a trade, or Jones/Zakoff. Jones is ranked #17 on the Goalie Guild’s prospect watch despite his sophomore wobble season, and is just 22 years old. Zatkoff is having a strong season in Manchester, and is 24.
Cap landscape looks different depending on which roster player(s) you put in the deal.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
I don’t know what Quick will ask for; under $5 million seems too hopeful to ask for.
I don’t think Quick is going for Rinne like money (~$7 mil per) unless he wins the Vezina, a playoff series, etc. Of course he has been fantastic but let’s not forget he’s got a pretty good defense in front of him too. $5-$6 mil, especially if it goes long term, is definitely possible.
Honestly, it strikes me as absurd to nurture two young goalies like Quick and Bernier only to trade one and lose the other as a UFA before either turns 26. That’s almost George Maguire-ish.
To my mind, you do what you gotta do to hang onto either one for another contract at least. Neither Jones nor Zatkoff has played at the NHL level yet, so you can’t count on either being good enough to be #1 on a contender at this point. See how they do as a backup first.
"I see my life flashing before my eyes... and it's boring!." — Gumball Watterson
I think Niesy is subtly pointing out that Rick Nash doesn’t make any sense for any team the Kings because of his cap hit.
Honestly, I think the rumored asking prices from Howson (Brown, Johnson, Bernier, 1st from the Kings, Kreider, Dubinsky, one of Stepan or McD from the Rangers) shows that he’s not really interested in trading Nash.
I’ll nod in agreement to all of that. I was never a big proponent of dealing for Nash, especially given what he would cost.
I suspect you’re right, that Howson is fielding offers, but will only bite if the return is too good to turn down, and then some. He may also be making a show of dangling Nash to placate the owner, who seems to be one who wants to rebuild.
"I see my life flashing before my eyes... and it's boring!." — Gumball Watterson
The thing is, Howson pretty much has to ask for the moon and the stars in exchange for Nash. They’re losing the face of the franchise, you can’t turn around and sell tickets to your (heretofore patient but suffering) fans without saying “Ta da, we got tons of goodies.”
But George E. Ays (a Rangers blogger) pointed out that if there’s a list of only 5 teams, this is not an incentive for any of them to go bonkers in a bidding war. It’s an already limited market. Out of those five teams which ones think they can actually absorb that $7.8? Eh.
Honestly, the rumored asking price is probably not going to be met, so I don’t think they ought to trade him — but then the way that franchise is run, management should have been fired a while ago.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
Two
Until you HAVE to move a goalie, I’d prefer to go with the Boston/Vancouver model. Two strong choices in goal.
Seemed to have worked out pretty well for both of those teams last year (and this).
by kevin_ebel on Feb 16, 2012 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
BTW, Mayor's Manor is claiming that the Kings are working on an extension for Mitchell
If true, this makes a deadline deal involving one or more young defenseman/D prospect more likely, I would think.
"I see my life flashing before my eyes... and it's boring!." — Gumball Watterson
Ranger fan here
as a ranger fan I want no part of Rick Nash and his 8 mil cap hit…..I was hoping he would get traded to you guys just so he doesn’t wind up on the Rangers lol…I do see most of you want no part either
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 15, 2012 11:21 PM PST via Android app reply actions
I hope you guys get him personally.
I wouldn’t want him if it means giving them our Captain, or a goalie we might need. There are some who actually think it’s a bargain to trade Captains even though he’s been a powerless Captain to pull his teams together, and at 4.6 million more, only scores 6 or 7 more goals a year than Brown.
He doesn’t even end the season in the top 5 in hits, or draw anywhere near as many penalties. His +/- alone should scare everyone away, and at least take into account his OHL +/- stats as a sign that he’s a cherry picker, and will never work in the Kings system, but some refuse to see it.
All of the teams he has had during his NHL career, he has been a lonewolf McQuade. His play doesn’t inspire unity, or team effort. Brown might have a lot of faults, but he’s a hell of a better Captain than Nash is.
In this case I would wish you and your Rangers good luck, but in this case it has a double meaning, so I’ll leave it at “Take it easy”. ;)
by defrim65 on Feb 15, 2012 11:41 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I see what you did there lol
by Prustyballs94 on Feb 16, 2012 12:03 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
It would be funny if the Rangers were the 2nd New York team to blow up their carefully constructed youth movement for a guy who gets paid too much and who hogs the ball.
On the plus side, that means some Asian dude will score 4 consecutive hat tricks for you next year.
by RudyKelly on Feb 16, 2012 7:37 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Everyone here seems to agree that it would not be a good move to get Nash.
IF, if they do make the move that would be a true indictment of management, because there is absolutely no reason why they should even be in this position to begin with.
The sole reason the d is good and the offense is not is because management completely neglected the offense. Balance is one thing, but the scale was very tipped in one direction, so bringing in a player with a $7.8M cap hit would be a nasty price to pay to bring equilibrium back to balance things out.
At this point just flippin wait is all. The Ducks are 14-3-3 in the New Year. They give indications of being for real whether they make the post season or not. The Kings have won 4 of the last 10 games. Under .500. Not quite an indication that one player, no matter who it is will make the difference.
From Mayor's Manor
Do the Kings want Nash? Of course they do! But, they aren’t getting him for what’s being floated around the internet. Not even close. Sources told us last month the Blue Jackets were looking at Brown, Johnson, Bernier and a pick/prospect. That’s way too rich – even for an elite player like Nash.
So, the most likely scenario has LA picking up one or two depth forwards at the deadline and having to wait until the summer to make a major move.
It’s obvious that it’s far too much, but still. It’s good to see people emphasizing that. All I’ve read is a lot of push-back.
Also, I don’t know why they’d spend years being cautious about cap hits in free agency just to throw it all away now. Overcorrecting is dumb.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
So, the most likely scenario has LA picking up one or two depth forwards at the deadline and having to wait until the summer to make a major move.
As long as that doesn’t mean, “one or two more guys like Trent Hunter,” I’m good with that.
"I see my life flashing before my eyes... and it's boring!." — Gumball Watterson
by DougX on Feb 16, 2012 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Touche…
Trying to think of the last person we traded for that fit in seamlessly…Modin? Wow.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
Simon Gagne skated again today and worked on some individual drills. This makes me want to cautiously say “Funk Yeah!!!!!”
"We will come with our guns blazing, and we just blazed." - Tim Leiweke
by DodgerBlueBalls on Feb 16, 2012 10:50 AM PST reply actions
Hmm. I wonder what the timetable is there. I expect it to be long.
Very good news, though. Never like to see anyone kept away from what they love.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
And it’s a basic health issue, too. For a guy that young to be unfit to even skate and do drills because of a head injury… not good.
"I see my life flashing before my eyes... and it's boring!." — Gumball Watterson
I am expecting his recovery to still take a long time, but to hear any kind of progress from Gagne is great news.
"We will come with our guns blazing, and we just blazed." - Tim Leiweke
by DodgerBlueBalls on Feb 16, 2012 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
Hey let’s make this an Andrei Kostitsyn open thread.
Anything I have to say involves a rant as far as the Kings needing to be able to use all types of players. So I wonder how other people think he would fare under Sutter. I am trying to have an open mind.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
Offical approved list
Nucks not on Rick Nash’s ‘approved list’, says Columbus writer Aaron Portzline. The five are: Leafs, Bruins, NYR, Sharks, Kings.
Damn it. How in the world will this work? Don’t do it AEG. I’m scared.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
We’re always the front runners for all of these guys — please let this turn out like all the rest.
Unless they trade for Nash, he scores 17 goals next season, and they finally, FINALLY realize they need some better balance between offense and defense. There is no other way the rest of the forwards will outperform their cap hits.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
Alright, I can't hold this back any longer.
Breaking news: Matt Barry is officially nuttier than squirrel turds.
Derp.
"We will come with our guns blazing, and we just blazed." - Tim Leiweke
by DodgerBlueBalls on Feb 16, 2012 12:21 PM PST reply actions
Yeah, Kopitar is not playing well enough to justify his contract, so let’s trade for a one-dimensional winger making a million more who DEFINITELY WON’T EITHER.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
Well at least funny things keep turning up. I read this from a Toronto fan.
LA doesn’t have the young forwards or D the Leafs have
Yep, that’s where we’re screwed. We really lack young defenders.
Where do they get off? Their prospects don’t look above ours — and the young defensemen currently on that team can’t kill a penalty for shit.
Dinglebarnin' It JftC
Deep breaths!
This attitude isn’t necessarily the product of devaluing Kings’ prospects but rather a myopia so grandiose that it leads to not even bothering to follow hockey outside a 100 mile radius of Toronto.
in other trade rumor news...
it’s being reported from a fringe rumor and innuendo-based, truthiness source that variable, a los angeles kings blogger, is seriously considering to exchange his dirty leftover assorted loose change for clean, crisp united states dollar currency…
this rumor has yet to be confirmed, but will be reported to you anyway…after repeated attempts to contact variable via phone calls, text messages and emails by yrs truly to verify the rumor, he has yet to respond…
however, a source identifying itself as "eklund" is boasting to have semi-direct knowledge of variable’s thought-to-be thought process, claiming that he has outside-inside information concerning the non-specific details of the confirmed alleged rumor and pre-subsequent transaction that would drastically alter the landscape of variable’s dresser drawer top and infuse his wallet with formidable purchasing power …
frantically reporting from the basement bathroom of his parent’s mobile home, eklund said "it’s about 97.8% a done deal, but the 2.2% chance of it not happening could ruin the whole transaction"…and that right now, "variable is just narrowing down the field of coinstar locations to get the trade done"…
eklund also said, "there might be some foreign coins involved" which might delay the deal going through due to transfer rates and visa issues…an unidentified representative of coinstar refused to say if this rumor is true, but did say, "Variable has been known to do business with us in the past and he knows where he can find us. We have large green machines!"
please stay tuned to this blog and frequently update yr screen for further information on this major deal thought to be rumored to be maybe or maybe not happening…
oh, yeah…i almost forgot…
we are on his list…
variable from deepinsidethekings.com
by variables on Feb 16, 2012 2:32 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
Read an interesting piece in the LA Times about why Nash might come to LA. Got my renewal notice for my season tickets and they are going up 12%. According to the article, certain seats can go up by as much as 25%. I wrote an email to my rep, questioning the rising cost coinciding with a decrease the the product quality. In a nutshell, his response was that the Kings plan on spending close to if not over the cap. Now I’m sure that it’s a generic response but I’m sure many season ticket holders are pissed about the price increase for a team with no playoff series wins in the three years I’ve been a season ticket holder. A blockbuster trade might be something that soothes that a bit.
My first thought was “Jeff Solomon is answering the phones now? Hot damn!”
"We will come with our guns blazing, and we just blazed." - Tim Leiweke
by DodgerBlueBalls on Feb 16, 2012 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
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