Brown and Kopitar are excellent in so many ways, but they've never been clutch
Aside from some good numbers back in the run-and-gun Marc Crawford era, Dustin Brown and Anze Kopitar -- despite putting together some pretty good individual numbers -- have only occasionally rediscovered their initial chemistry. There have been some highlight-reel goals -- Kopitar's aerial pass to Brown two Decembers ago comes to mind -- but these have been eclipsed by vast stretches in each of the last three seasons in which neither player could buy a point. A telling moment came at the end of...2008?...when Brown told a reporter that they needed a left-winger, and Lombardi essentially responded (also in the press) "WTF?!" Lombardi clearly expected Brown, Kopitar and whoever was part of the "core" then, to take it upon themselves to get it done, not shift the blame to the absence of linemate x.
(This sentiment was echoed yesterday by Darryl Sutter, in his comments in the LA Times, which I will paraphrase as "stop talking about the team the team the team and start making things happen yourselves." I believe his actual quote was more colorful. But more on the Sutter comments later...)
Having said that, Lombardi brought in Ryan Smyth, who, paired frequently with Justin Williams, made whoever they played with look pretty good. For a few weeks, it was Smyth - Kopitar - Williams, and they were the hottest line in the league. And then Murray moved Smyth and Williams to the Stoll line, and suddenly the xx - Kopitar - Brown line was cold and Stoll's line was hot. The revolving door at Kopitar's left has seen countless wingers come and go, Smyth, Matt Moulson (who has scored about 100 goals the last three years), Teddy Purcell, Dustin Penner, Marco Sturm, Alex Frolov, Andrei Loktionov, Scott Parse, Simon Gagne, Dwight King, (next game) Jordan Nolan, Brad Richardson, Trevor Lewis, Mike Richards, etc. (etc.!). Is that the fault of Dean Lombardi, not providing Kopitar with a winger of enough skill and talent? That's one theory. And yet: Smyth, Williams, Frolov, Brown, Gagne, Moulson, Penner...30+ goal scorers all. In the past few years, Kopitar and Brown were bailed out by secondary scoring. Michal Handzus, Wayne Simmonds, Brad Richardson, and assorted others (Parse one year, Moller another) came through with key goals during the Kopitar/Brown droughts. This year, we saw a little of this, with some games being won by the third and/or fourth lines single-handed (in terms of scoring, I mean -- obviously all four lines have been excellent defensively all year and, really, for several years).
While writing this post, I noticed Matt Berry beat me to it:
HockeyBuzz.com - Matthew Barry - What About Nash/Carter for Kopitar/Brown/Bernier?
Darryl Sutter ripped into his top players today [...: "T]hese guys talk too much about the team. They should talk more about more about themselves, what they bring to the table. … Kopi and Brownie have been stale, from my standpoint, for a little while together. In terms of producing opportunities, if it’s working backwards, in terms of who you perceive as your fourth line, to your first, then it’s not really a team thing.’’ [...]
After all, Lombardi DID DO what he said he would do: a) fixed the back end (Kings 3rd in defense) b) fixed the goaltending (Quick 3rd in GAA) c) Got two 1st line centers (Kopitar and Richards) But if Kopitar, at 6.8 million ain't cutting it, and (an affordable) Brown, a disaster as Captain, haven't "stepped up" why not a big juicy blockbuster?
Carter and Richards would be #1 and #2. Nash and Williams ain't too shabby. [...] If Flyers fans didn't revolt when they dealt Richards AND Carter, Kings fans won't if Nash and Carter are the return.
Although I'm not as vituperative as Matt, I agree with his criticisms. Whether the trade he suggests would be good or bad is another issue, one which I am by no means clear on.
Having started this post, and then reading Matt, I started writing some sentences I quickly realized I had written before. Two years before. This is January 2010:
The nice thing about buying-in to the system is that, in theory, if you take the leap of faith, the system works. And, lo and behold, the system does work. For the most part, the Kings are the best team they've been since the beginning of the decade, and for the most part the players have committed to Terry Murray's system. It helps to know that, when the game isn't going well, you can redouble your commitment to the system, and that's all you have to think about: your job. Same goes for when you're up 6-0 and there's a temptation to sit back. No. You still play the system. The other advantage of playing with this kind of team discipline is that it helps reduce the anxiety that comes from being a young, inexperienced team with young, inexperienced leaders. The system gives the young players something to hang their hat on.
But I realized tonight that my frustration watching Kopitar and Brown -- I'm going to resist characterizing their play and just focus on results -- is not so much that they frequently seem to be drifting or uncertain, or that they miss the net when I want them to NOT...it's really just the small matter that for some reason they aren't putting the team on their shoulders and winning some of these games all by themselves.
And that's irrational, isn't it? Why should I expect that of these two players, and not of Frolov or Stoll or Handzus? (Let's pretend that Handzus hasn't been on a tear the last month or so, and that all three of these players aren't lately putting up better numbers than Brown and Kopitar.) It doesn't make sense for me to expect the players to buy-in to the team system and ALSO that they should take it upon themselves to be difference makers. Because that's contradictory, right? That's basically saying, play the system but don't. Right?
No. Wrong.
Because the way Kopitar is supposed to be winning games all by himself is not by ignoring the system or going rogue, it's by buying-in even more, which means doing all the things he was doing at the beginning of the year, moving his feet, hitting, accelerating, driving to the net, crashing to the net, shooting at the net not past it, so that screens and crashing and traffic actually mean something and have an effect. (p.s. shooting wide is not buying-in; because what happens when you shoot wide is you are trying to pick the corner and use your skill to make the perfect shot; instead of trusting that putting it on net with traffic is going to lead to the kinds of goals the team is built to score. That's why Smyth is standing there, or Handzus, getting his ass kicked. When you miss the net because you're special and you can make the perfect highlight reel shot, you're hanging everyone else out to dry. You miss the net, and they're just standing there. The other team breaks out. One-goal loss.)
I get the feeling from listening to Kopitar talk that he thinks he's doing his job if he's doing the little things, buying-in, back-checking, covering all the x's and o's. That's, as they say, necessary but not sufficient. The platitude that if they keep doing the little things then the bounces will start going their way is wearing thin. Said platitude has the infuriating virtue of being true. As far as it goes. And it's extra frustrating, at least for me, because I feel slightly mean expecting poor Kopitar and Brown who have given their all to the system to take on the even greater burden of making wins happen out of thin air.
Nevertheless, I expect it. And, frankly, the expectation is built into their salaries.
What is the expectation exactly? It begins with the fact that Kopitar and Brown have superior abilities. They are more skilled than many of their peers. They are faster, stronger, smarter -- pick your attribute, they have more of it. That's why they were picked when they were picked. That's why they get, as they say, the big bucks. When Parse, Richardson, Moller, Simmonds or Segal are as effective as our leaders, it is in fact a failing of the leaders. (I don't mean in a single game; when it happens every once in a while, it's called secondary scoring; when it happens for a few months or even a few seasons, it's called a leadership vacuum.) Because Kopitar and Brown pushing themselves to excel within the system must yield more goals than Parse, Richardson et al doing it. Because they're better. And they're paid accordingly.
My guess is that being a 22 year old multi-millionaire superstar hockey player in a foreign country is mildly terrifying on a daily basis. Even more so now that there is an actual expectation that the team is going to win and you are going to lead them. And let's not forget the pressure created by the fact that you (Brown, now) publicly called out your boss on the need for a genuine top-six left wing, because (boo hoo) it's hard for you to play over there. Passing the buck, never a good idea. Bosses remember that. Who among them has had the thought that, hey, they went out and got just what we asked for, and we're having the same trouble as last year. We know that Lombardi did not appreciate the Dustin Brown wish list. He said as much last summer. He made a comment to the effect that those two players should be taking it upon themselves to get the job done. So far, they have not. And while I'm not really of the belief that this so-far disastrous homestand is the season in a nutshell, I have already said that the mini-season of the 20 games leading up to the break will likely decide whether the Kings are in the playoffs or not, and so will determine where at least one or two of the current Kings play for the next several years.
Back to my point about the pressure they're under: I think there is a huge temptation to hide inside the system, to let the system (that is to say, the coach) take over the entire burden of leadership. It would be kind of nice if they could get a leadership pass just by buying into the system and letting the system magically win the games for them. That would be easier than the actual job, which is to lead. And, again, I don't mean to say they should be "taking the law into their own hands." That's not leadership. Leadership would be, for example: playing within the system with all knobs set, a la Spinal Tap, to 11. Because Brown's 11, Kopitar's 11, that's louder, bigger, just plain better, than everyone else's 11. I don't want to see players make themselves smaller within the system. I want them to make themselves bigger. Because they are bigger. They need to play bigger. Because, frankly -- and I mean this in the best possible sense -- these guys have not won and don't actually know how to win. (win=playoffs; win means winning like teams like Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Detroit, New Jersey, manage to do year after year, not just being "better than last year") When they have won then they will know.
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Agree
Another way to put this is that many of these players are not earning what they are being paid.
As a longtime fan, I find myself at a crossroads. I have a liking for most of the players, esp. those who have been with the team a while and have had moments of brilliance. But as you point out, those moments are few and far between. And perhaps for the team to start winning, someone has to go.
The problem is that nobody seems certain what the “intangible” is that is missing. Why is it that players don’t perform well in a Kings uniform? Many of us thought it was the coaching. A lot think it is the GM. Who the fuck knows?
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
So many OOOOOOs that they run off the edge of the line and are cut off by your icon, and as a result
it looks like Booo….ooooox. Or boox. Alternatively, and maybe it’s just my eyes, it looks like a very long braid or an infinity of infinity symbols.
When I said blame the players and not Lombardi I didn’t mean the one guy on the team who has actually maintained his offensive numbers.
Probably makes you wish you had been more specific.
I’m not signing on to Matt Barry’s trade solution. I do agree with his critique though, in general. I have always, for years now, voiced concerns that Kopitar is not quite the force everyone wants him to be. It’s not his fault. He never said, “lo, I am the force you want me to be! kneel before zod!” or whatever he might say if he thought he was all that. At minimum, he needs some fucking linemates.
the truth (or one truth) is, Lombardi banked on Gagne, Penner and Parse holding down the fort on the left side, and at this point all we’ve got is Kyle Clifford, Jordan Nolan and Dwight King. He thought maybe Gagne wouldn’t get hurt (he did), Parse would recover (he didn’t), and Penner would respond and have a great contract year (crickets). If Lombardi had banked on any one of those things, it would have been irresponsible. But I would have been comfortable assuming that all three wouldn’t happen at the same time.
But I would have been comfortable assuming that all three wouldn’t happen at the same time.
Why do I hear Mr Burns’ voice in my head. 9 professional baseballers on the company team. Sure, one or two might get hurt and not be able to play. But all 9? Impossible.
=)
Not too far away...
Gagne
Penner (only halfway struck out)
Parse
Holloway
Clifford
Richardson
Moreau
King
Nolan
This Touches on the Kings Biggest Failing
LA simply does not have a player capable of taking over a game. All the elite teams have a “superstar” who at any given time can impose his will. Or as Quisp referred to in the post, the Kings do not have a “clutch” player.
Top to bottom, I think the Kings have one of the deepest teams in the league. But they are lacking elite talent. Kopitar could/should be an elite player but only plays that way in flashes.
As it has been said on this site before, Kopitar need to make the players around him better; not the other way around. Until that happens, both Kopitar and the Kings will not reach his/their full potential.
Rich Ramus
Kings’ clutch player = Jonathan Quick
by maxwellian_demon on Feb 21, 2012 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
As for Kopitar, I realize that on one hand he hasn’t really clicked with a single player other than Smyth beginning of last year. That said, out of the list that Quisp presented (rotating LW list) name one player on it that is truly a first line elite talent.
Matt Moulson would’ve managed for sure, but they didn’t think he had whatever the magic ingredient is.
Sometimes in juniors you get two or three guys who just click together. Lupul and Kessel have meshed really well in Toronto. So while it’s true that Kopi does need to turn it up a notch – and even more importantly, pull out of his head the idea that when every December comes, he feels colder and his game gets colder. Still feel that a more dangerous player to play with could at the same time lift Kopi’s game and help make him a bit more consistent.
I think that Dean Lombardi does know how to come into a failing franchise and start rebuilding it, but I’m less convinced that he has a natural feel for how the pieces should fit together. On the backend perhaps. But I’ve seen nothing that convinces me that he knows how to create an offense, either by having coaches in place that can help, or drafting and developing players that have that sort of orientation.
Last paragraph is money
I think that Dean Lombardi does know how to come into a failing franchise and start rebuilding it, but I’m less convinced that he has a natural feel for how the pieces should fit together. On the backend perhaps. But I’ve seen nothing that convinces me that he knows how to create an offense, either by having coaches in place that can help, or drafting and developing players that have that sort of orientation.
Correction re: Matt Barry's article
I prefer that facts be specified a bit more clearly than they have been.
After all, Lombardi DID DO what he said he would do: a) fixed the back end (Kings 3rd in defense) b) fixed the goaltending (Quick 3rd in GAA) c) Got two 1st line centers (Kopitar and Richards)
The truth is that DL should not get total credit for that in any way. Quick was already here. Yes DL gave him the opportunity and then Quick ran with it. That’s different. And I can’t even imagine that DL would have drafted a player like Kopi as he was from an off the map hockey country and doesn’t embody typical DL traits that we see him go for. And of course he did fix the back end so he deserves full props for that as well.
Mike Richards is something else. Yes, he can take full credit for that.
Disagree
I disagree on the whole premise of this debate.
I believe there to be enough information, even if it’s just empirical, that it is “the system” that is failing us.
It needs a tweak. Look to Philly or NJ, they play a similar system. Control in the back end and down the center. Once in the offensive zone its all about battle along the boards, puck possession/control and get SOMEONE IN THE FUCKING SCORING LANE!
We do a phenomenal job of everything until you get to, above in CAPS.
To me that is system. There is something in our system (or the way we are communicating/interpreting it) that is preventing someone where the puck has the highest % of ending up after we cycle out from the boards with the puck. (Kopitars Lazy Susan).
you could be right, but if it's the system, so-called
we won’t get to find that out. because even if the entire management team and coaching staff get canned (in the summer; won’t happen before that, right?) whoever is brought in is not going to just go into next season with the same players. there will be roster moves, in any case. so we’ll never know if these players could have done better with other coaches.
In terms of scoring, of course they could have done better. But in terms of points? They’re still on target to get into the 90s in points. And that’s after a losing streak. The idea that they would have done better with a different system is debatable. They could certainly have been more entertaining. It’s more fun to lose 5-6 than 0-1.
I appreciate what you're saying
I agree with your observation, with one caveat.
I believe the system is 90% right.
In the defensive end = great
Through the middle = good
Offensive end = 20% good (assuming the other two represent 33.3% of “the system”).
It is all good up to the point where we come out from the corner/boards with the puck and have a choice to either shoot or pass. Just my observation but either there is no one in a high percentage area to pass to and/or there is no one to “clean up” loose puck and put it back @ net. That is the 12 – 13 percent that needs to be tweaked, IMO. Again, I look at Philly, New Jersey and I see their forwards in those positions, and I see them third (Philly) and 11th (NJ) in scoring.
I would say this is supported both by “this is where scoring comes to die” and once the personnel that “didn’t cut it” leave and go play somewhere else … their scoring numbers seem to trend up.
Assuming we scored 16.12 more goals this year (13% if 124 GF) I do not believe that would necessarily equate to 16.38 (13% of 126 GA) more goals allowed. I recognize it might create 16.38 more “chances” for the other teams to score but as previously stated, it would need to pass through the 66% what we do exceptionally well before it turned into an actual goal.
Seems obvious to me
that neither Kopi or Brown have the mentality that it takes to be an effective 82 game player, or part of the leadership team. I’m not saying they “take games off” but they’re clearly at 80% effort level, game-in, game-out. I remember Kopi’s first goal, how fast he looked, going wide around the D-man, then tucking the puck around the goalie in a power move. When was the last time you saw Kopi use his speed to beat someone? When was the last time he was assertive on the powerplay? When was the last time either of them scored a really dirty goal?
I think there’s a good basketball analogy here, when it comes to power forwards or centers – either you’re a everything-from-the-perimeter Dirk (and therefore “soft”) or you’re a Garnett, or a Shaq – someone intent on applying a hard foul, forcing people to get out or your way as you slam the rock in their face.
Kopi, play with heart. Be a little more Garnett and push back; take the puck to the net instead of continually cycling or sending it back to the point. Play with an edge, stand up for yourself for cryin out loud. Remember that you’re Anze freakin’ Kopitar, not Handzus.
Brownie, on the other hand – seems like you’re on and off like a lightswitch. You’re either blowing people up and creating scoring changes, or you’re a passive, turnover-ridden puckhog. Let’s see some more fights, and can you work on screening the goalie?
I agree that they need to take more personal responsibility – in fact, all players in post-game interviews say “we’ve just got to find a way to score goals” – how about “I’ve got to find a way…”
How about some passes to the slot, some cutting defensemen, some defensemen joining the play? What’s the use of a an “offensive” defenseman if they’re all going to play like Scuderi?
Playing Bigger Than the System
I totally see where you’re coming from. I honestly just think that Terry Murray overcorrected this team so much from the Marc Crawford days that the players don’t believe they can succeed if they try to be bigger than the team ever.
I still remember Kopitar’s first NHL goal when he got the lead pass and made Pronger look like a fool before scoring. He was clearly a superstar. It was the kind of move that Ovechkin would have made. And he kept doing that all year as a rookie. Not only him, but Brown and Cammalleri and Frolov. They all did it.
And the team was terrible.
Yes, they made some great offensive plays, but defensively it was a disaster.
So in came Terry Murray and he taught them how to not take risks because when you’re always looking to play offense you’re not playing proper defense. And when you’re trying to be a superstar you’re never looking to make the defensive play. Instead of holding someone like Ovechkin up as an example for Kopitar, he was told basically, “Look at your teammate Zus over there. Model your game after him, and that’s the kind of hockey player we want you to be.” And Michael Handzus is a skilled hockey player, very skilled in fact. But he seems much more comfortable playing defensively. I remember many an occasion where he would have a great opportunity to carry the puck forward and lead a rush but instead he’d just dump it and make a change; you know, the responsible play, the one where you can’t hurt your team.
I feel like they did too good of a job with Kopitar in this regard. He got so much praise from the coaching staff – “he is so responsible defensively now”, “he has become a solid two-way center”, “it doesn’t matter where it’s Kopi or Zus out there against the opposition’s top line, they’ll both get the job done”, etc etc – that he realized that was the game that was expected of him. I’m sure he heard about it the last few seasons if he did take a chance offensively and it didn’t go in, or even worse it went the other way and the other team scored. I can imagine that’s the case because we pretty much know it happened with Frolov.
In fact, Alexander Frolov is a good case-in-point as to why Kopitar is playing the way he is. Frolov was an outstanding hockey player for the Kings. Under Andy Murray, Marc Crawford, and Terry Murray, he did his job and he did it well. He was an offensive-minded forward who put the puck in the net as well as an other player the Kings had. But sometimes he made a mistake. Sometimes he tried to do too much (exactly what you now appear to be asking Kopitar to do), played a little outside the system, and his man would get away from him and score.
What happend to Frolov?
Hated by half the fan base. Insulted by the coaches and management. Driven out of town.
Kopitar watched this happen. How would you respond when you saw that?
Of course, I think this can be changed. You just have to coach the attributes you want in your players back into them. If a player can learn to be more responsible defensively he can learn to be a little less responsible too until you find the right happy medium.
Do I think Darryl Sutter is the guy to do it? No. I don’t think Kopitar is going to respond to being called out in the media like this.
Very much agree about over-correcting Kopitar. Also, Kopitar plays a lot of (tough) minutes; usually has highest ice-time for forwards. Is he too tired to take over a game offensively? And I swear Kopitar skates more every game than anyone else (he’s covering down low defensively, puck goes the other way and he’s down low behind the other team’s net; over and over again. And this is where a possession-style offense is needed BY Kopitar. So many times has he just skated the length of the ice after guarding the opposition’s top center when the puck is quickly lost/turned over by the Kings and now he’s got to go another full length of the ice.) I know the last bit there sounds a bit whiny “Oooh he has to skate too much!” but I do think his increased defensive play takes energy away from his offensive game. Could be a conditioning problem, too.
But personality-wise, I’ve said this all along, Kopitar and Brown are good people. They listen to what the coaches tell them and try to do it. “You want me to be Hanzus? OK.” “You want me to just shoot the puck and crash the net? OK.” They have totally bought into “The Sytem” and “Team-First” mentality, and now you are complaining that they’re not egocentric enough?
What the fuck do you want them to do already!
Not saying DS was the best hire, but at least TM's gone.
I know the last bit there sounds a bit whiny "Oooh he has to skate too much!" but I do think his increased defensive play takes energy away from his offensive game.
I don’t think so.
There is a reason the Canucks start the Sedins’s shifts in the offensive zone like 80% of the time. You’re fresher and better able to play your game when you didn’t just skate the length of the ice.
But the Kings do kind of have a thing where they play their top players too much. cough Quick cough
As for Dustin Brown
I just don’t think he’s that good.
He had one 30-goal season. And that was in the no-holds-barred, don’t play defense Crawford era.
Even in Manchester and junior he was never a great scorer.
I think the Kings ask too much of a guy who really ought to be a third line grinder. He has never had good hands. He doesn’t pass particularly well. Even in his 30-goal season he was only 3rd on the team in points, behind Kopitar and Frolov and just ahead of soon-to-be castoffs Cammy and Sully.
I don’t think Brown should ever be asked to play bigger than the system because we see what happens when he does. I don’t know that it’s happened as much this year as the last couple, but any time he tries to take the puck on his own into the zone he loses it into the skates of the player he is trying to get around. He really is one of the more overrated players in the NHL.
Kopitar points the last 4 years:
77 in 82 games
66 in 82
81 in 82
73 in 75
50 in 59
He’s not the problem. Brown does appear to have gone done a level this year, but Kopitar is only slightly down. I think the Kings issues with scoring stem from 1) System, and more importantly 2) too many grinding role player types.
Fraser, King, Lewis, Nolan, Lewis, and Richardson are just the kind of guys you aren’t ever going to expect much from offensively. Scott Parse has never put it to ether, for whatever reason. Penner, Williams and Gagner appear to be waylaid by injuries, and it’s realistic to expect that Stoll best offensive days are behind him (Williams as well). I am an outsider, but when I look at this Kings roster and just see noone outside of a few key guys who you can expect to put the puck in the net regularly, either because they aren’t that good or because I can quite easily rationalize them slowing down.
I don’t know if the Kings need Nash, bud they definitely need some guys who can score.
The whole “he’s clutch” or “that guy doesn’t bring it” conversation is a bit tired.
I remember the year before the Penguins won the Cup when many hockey pundits and “experts” complained that Evgeny Malkin wasn’t clutch and because he had a poor playoffs that he will always be a total loser because he’s Russian and he’s shy and he likes ponies and milkshakes (I’m paraphrasing)… and of course the following year he wins the Conn Smythe and I do not recall one of those hockey pundit/experts apologizing for poo-pooing Malkin or his game.
Kopitar should be a lifelong King… I realize the following statement is premature considering the current state of the franchise, but I am looking forward to Kopitar taking his picture holding the Conn Smythe and then raising the Cup…
by Irish Pat on Feb 21, 2012 5:28 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
















